AE Naval and OOB Issues [OUTDATED]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Thanks,
my experience is that it happens somewhere between "most-times" and "always". Problem is LBA. I want to keep my carriers just outside of LBA and my opponent can always exploit this weakness and draw me in. Anyway to absolutely set the react range (4 hexs, not 1 hex more, ever!!!)?
thanks

No.

Where is, repeat, where is Task Force Thirty Four? The world wonders.

[JeffroK]

The react should be a max, with the variables at max-1, max-2 whatever.

Never more than max.

[JeffroK]

Back to the RAN, the long way

Grimsby Class Sloops

AE has                                                        Should be
9724   Swan     Start 411206       Brisbane         411206       Melbourne/Burnie   (Minesweeping in Bass Strait)
9725   Warrego         411206       Melbourne       411206       Melbourne/Burnie
9726   Yarra             411206       Aden              411225       Aden                   (On 411206 she was on patrol in the Red Sea, 25/12 may be a few days out)

River class Frigates    Many of these had a long work up period if they were commissioned post-war.
11128  Barcoo           440315       delay?            440117       Sydney
11129  Barwon          460201        delay?            451210       Sydney
11130  Burdekin         440915        delay?            440627       Brisbane
11131  Diamantina      450615        delay?            450427       Maryborough
11132  Gascoyne        440115       delay?            431118       Sydney
11133  Hawkesbury    440915        delay?            440705       Sydney
11134  Lachlan          450315       delay?             450214       Sydney
11135  Macquarie       460115      delay?              451207       Sydney
11137  Condamine      460215       delay?              460222       Sydney
11136  Murchison        460115      delay?              451217       Brisbane
11138  Culgoa            460215        delay?             470401      Melbourne
Missed  Shoalhaven                                            460502

County Class Heavy Cruisers

3211  Shropshire      430215         Aden                  430904    Cape Town
3212  Australia         411215        Sydney               411206     Sydney   (Under Refit/repair)
3213  Canberra        411206        TF 8431(Sydney)   411206    Sydney

These are pretty good except for Shropshire which was till an HMS at Chatham, England on 430215 before being refitted and given to the RAN and came via Cape Town, not the Med which was still a combat zone.

[Sardaukar]

About CV TF reaction, there arecouple of commanders with better Air rating than Halsey, they are just CV COs and thus not on TF CO list. But if you have those carriers in your TF, you can use them as TF Commanders. IIRC they are RAdm Sherman and RAdm Murray.
 
Neither has "insane" aggressivenes rating either, so they should stay better within your orders...[8D]

[JeffroK]

AE SETUP IRL SETUP RAN Light Cruisers
3235  Perth          411206              TF 8431(Sydney)          411206  Sydney (Edited)
3236  Hobart        411212              Aden                      411206 Aden
3237  Adelaide      411206              TF 8432 (Pt Moresby)     411206  Pt Moresby

RAN Destroyers
3688  Stuart         411206              Melbourne                     411206  Melbourne   Under repair/refit
3689  Voyager       411206              Sydney                        411206  Sydney       Damaged
3690  Vampire       411206               TF Z                           411206  TF Z
3691  Vendetta     411206              Singapore                     411206   Singapore   Immobile, needed Vampire to tow it to Perth.
3692  Quiberon      431215              Aden                           430227  Cape Town (Actually Durban)
3693  Quickmatch   431215             Aden                            May 44  Indian Ocean  Still checking.
3694  Arunta         420515             Cape Town                    420517  Sydney       Built in Sydney!!
3695  Warramunga  421215             Cape Town                    421123  Sydney      Built in Sydney!!
3697  Bataan         450615             Aden                             450525  Sydney      Built in Sydney!!
3729  Nepal           420812             Cape Town                    420103   Aden
The following N Class arrived but were withdrawn in Jun 42 to escort a Malta convoy and returned to Aden in Sep 42
3728  Napier          420103              Aden                           420103   Aden
3730  Nestor          420103              Aden                           420103   Aden
3731  Nizam          420103              Aden                           420103   Aden
3732  Norman          420202             Cape Town                   420103   Aden

RAN Bathurst Class Minesweepers
4381  Kalgoorlie      420407              Brisbane                         420407   Whyalla
4382  Tamworth     420208              Brisbane                         420208   Maryborough
4383  Pirie             421010              Brisbane                         421010   Whyalla
4384  Ararat          430616              Rockhampton                   430616   Brisbane
4385  Armidale       420611              Hobart                            420611   Sydney      Sunk 421201
4386  Ballarat        411206              Singapore                        411206   Darwin       (Actually arrived 411208)Confirmed.
4387  Benalla         420415              Melbourne                       430427   Melbourne
4388  Bowen          420815              Brisbane                         421109   Brisbane
4389  Bunbury        411206              Townsville                      430103   Brisbane
4390  Bundaberg     420912              Darwin                           420912   Brisbane
4391  Cairns           411206              Darwin                           420511   Maryborough
4392  Castlemaine   420415              Melbourne                       420617   Melbourne
4393  Cessnock       420215             Sydney                           420126   Sydney
4394  Colac            420106             Derby                              420106   Sydney
4395  Cootamundra  420615             Sydney                            430430   Sydney
4396  Cowra            420615            Blank??                             431008   (I cant find this either, checking)
4397  Deloraine        411206             Darwin                             411206   Sydney
4398  Dubbo            420731             Townsville                        420731   Sydney
4399  Echuca           420415            Blank??                            420907   Melbourne
4400  Fremantle        430324            Sydney                           430324   Brisbane   Both the ship & the fortress unit are spelt wrong
4401  Geelong          420515            Melbourne                        420116   Melbourne
4402  Gladstone        420815           Melbourne                        430322   Maryborough
4403  Glenelg            421116           Burnie                             421116   Sydney
4404  Gympie            421104           Derby                              421104   Brisbane
4405  Horsham          420515           Blank??                             421118   Melbourne
4406  Inverell            420917          Rockhampton                     420917   Sydney
4407  Ipswich            411206         Darwin                               420613   Brisbane   Ship name spelt wrong.
4408  Junee              420615          Blank??                              440411   Sydney
4409  Kapunda          420715           Sydney                             421021   Sydney
4410  Katoomba        420715           Sydney                             411217   Sydney
4411  Kiama             440116           Sydney                              440126   Brisbane
4412  Latrobe           411206           Perth                                 421106   Sydney
4413  Launceston      420115           Brisbane                             420409   Brisbane
4414  Lismore            420115          Trincomalee                         411216   Aden
4415  Lithgow            411206          Burnie                                 411206   Burnie  (In Bass Strait area)
4416  Mildura             411206          Townsville                           411206   On East Coast, checking.
4417  Parkes              440525         Melbourne                            440525   Brisbane
4418  Rockhampton    420915          Melbourne                            420121   Maryborough
4419  Shepparton      420615          Melbourne                             430201   Melbourne
4420  Stawell            420715          Melbourne                             430807   Melbourne
4421  Strahan           421015          Newcastle                             440314   Newcastle
4422  Toowoomba     411206           Singapore                             411206   Sydney (Confirmed)
4423  Townsville       411219           Cairns                                  411219   Brisbane
4424  Wagga            421218           Sydney                                421218   Sydney
4425  Wallaroo          420815           Sydney                                420715   Sydney
4426  Warrnambool    411206           Derby                                  411206   Burnie    
4427  Whyalla           411206           Sydney                                420108   Whyalla
4428  Wollongong      411206           Sydney                                 411206   Sydney

Missed Bathurst class
        Bathurst                                                                         411216   Aden
        Bendigo                                                                          411206   Singapore
        Broome                                                                           420729   Brisbane
        Burnie                                                                            411206   Singapore
        Gawler                                                                           420814   Whyalla
        Geraldton                                                                        420406   Sydney
        Goulburn                                                                          411206   Singapore
        Maryborough                                                                     411206   Singapore

[PzB74]

After testing midget subs in my two Jap games I have had 30+ failed launches.
Not a single success!

Have others the same experience and should it be considered to raise the midgets chance to achieve success?
Not sure what the chance is today, but even if it was 10% it would require massive bad mojo not to achieve a single hit in 34 attempts.

[JeffroK]

What % success should they achieve?

Against unprepared defences they achieved little, in AE where the Allies should be expecting them they should achieve less.

[PzB74]

I suggest a 10-15% success rate.
As it is now they don't achieve anything. In real life they did achieve something;

1. Pearl Harbour: Photographic analysis conducted by the United States Naval Institute in 1999 indicates one of the five Ko-hyoteki-class submarines managed to enter Pearl Harbor, and successfully fired a torpedo into the USS West Virginia

2. Diego Suarez Harbor: On 29 May 1942, two midget submarines, one of which managed to enter the Diego Suarez harbor and fired two torpedoes. One torpedo seriously damaged battleship HMS Ramillies, while the second sank the oil tanker British Loyalty (6,993 tons).

3. Sydney Harbour: On the night of 31 May – 1 June, three Ko-hyoteki class midget submarines, each with a two-member crew, entered Sydney Harbour, avoided the partially constructed Sydney Harbour anti-submarine boom net, and attempted to sink Allied warships. After being detected and attacked, the crews of two of the midget submarines scuttled their boats and committed suicide without successfully engaging Allied vessels. The third submarine attempted to torpedo the heavy cruiser USS Chicago, but instead sank the converted ferry HMAS Kuttabul, killing 21 sailors.

These raids actually sank 3 vessels and damaged 2 battleships.
5 torpedo hits made by 10 midgets isn't a poor achievement if you ask me.
- In AE we can only dream about more than a lucky hit (and as I said, after ca 34 attempts I have none).

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: PzB

5 torpedo hits made by 10 midgets isn't a poor achievement if you ask me.
- In AE we can only dream about more than a lucky hit (and as I said, after ca 34 attempts I have none).

But that 10 midget subs doesn't include all the failed attempts, does it? So it's not 5 torp hits for 10 subs, it's 5 torp hits for some much larger number of subs, yes?

[PzB74]

All midgets referred to here are of the Ko-hyoteki class submarine.

According to Wiki fifty were built.
The first two, Ha-1 and Ha-2, were used only in testing. They did not have conning towers, which were added to the later boats for stability underwater.

Ha-19 was launched by I-24 at Pearl Harbor. Most of the other fifty are unaccounted for, although three were captured in Sydney (Australia), and others in Guam, Guadalcanal, and Kiska Island, accounting for some of the other hull numbers.

I have no idea how many of the 48 midgets that were built were actually launched.
If anyone know about other missions than the 3 that are listed here it would be easy to calculate how many hits were achieved per midget launched.

For simplicity you can divide 5 hits between 20 and 30 midgets. I doubt more than 20 were launched.
Since one sub achieved hits on 2 ships it becomes a bit difficult, such a double success is not possible in AE, so we can count this one double success as 2 hits.
Even if you divide 30 by 5 you will get 6 which is 20%.

The success rate should therefore be ca 15% if you ask me. If only 10, 12 or 15 midgets were launched the rate could actually be higher, but not much lower since we're calculating from a low end.
- It would also be possible to include a slightly increased success ratio throughout the first few months of the war to indicate Allied lack of readiness.

If no changes are made to the midgets in AE they may just as well be removed for all the good they will do.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

AE SETUP IRL SETUP RAN Light Cruisers
3235  Perth          411206              TF 8431(Sydney)          411206  Auckland  (Still checking this, she was on tour)
3236  Hobart        411212              Aden                                       I  cant be sure, she was in the IO in Jan42 so 411212 may be correct.
3237  Adelaide      411206              TF 8432 (Pt Moresby)     411206  Still checking

....

Just off the top of my head, I know that Adelaide was at Port Moresby, having just escorted a lone transport there. She was ordered to Darwin.

Hobart was in the Med, but left for the Pacific immediately after war began in the Pacific. She departed Aden on the 13th.

Perth, along with Australia and Canberra, was assigned convoy escort duties in Australian/Indian Ocean waters. One of these three (Australia I think) was enroute Sydney from somewhere in Africa. The other two at Sydney??

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: JeffK

AE SETUP IRL SETUP RAN Light Cruisers
3235  Perth          411206              TF 8431(Sydney)          411206  Auckland  (Still checking this, she was on tour)
3236  Hobart        411212              Aden                                       I  cant be sure, she was in the IO in Jan42 so 411212 may be correct.
3237  Adelaide      411206              TF 8432 (Pt Moresby)     411206  Still checking

....

Just off the top of my head, I know that Adelaide was at Port Moresby, having just escorted a lone transport there. She was ordered to Darwin.

Hobart was in the Med, but left for the Pacific immediately after war began in the Pacific. She departed Aden on the 13th.

Perth, along with Australia and Canberra, was assigned convoy escort duties in Australian/Indian Ocean waters. One of these three (Australia I think) was enroute Sydney from somewhere in Africa. The other two at Sydney??

Hi Don, I agree with Adelaide, some info said she was on convoy duty on the East Coast, no detail but I have since found a few sources which place her at Pt Moresby.

Perth data on the RAN site and the HMAS Perth site http://www.hmasperth.asn.au/Perth_1.html say After completion of her refit on 22 November PERTH was engaged in exercises from 24 to 30 November and then sailed for Auckland. She carried out patrols, escort duties, exercises and manoeuvres during December 1941 and January 1942, visiting New Caledonia and New Guinea.
I'm trying to find a more detailed history which might say where she was when war was declared (remember, that was 8 Dec 41 Australian Time)

Hobart seems to be OK in AE.

Australia in the RAN site has After a period escorting convoys to Freetown, Durban, Suez and Colombo, Australia (II) finally arrived back in Sydney on 24 March 1941. Between April and November the ship was on duty in the Indian Ocean and on 6 November carried out a reconnaissance of the Crozet Islands. She returned to Sydney in December and became Flagship of the Australian Squadron and two months later, in February 1942, Flagship of ANZAC Squadron, having Noumea as its operational base.
The Official RAN History says she was between Simonstown (Cape Town) & Sydney.

The HMAS Canberra website says
When war broke out with Japan on 8 December 1941, CANBERRA was berthed in Sydney Harbour with more than 175,000 miles of war time operational steaming to her credit.
which is identical to the RAN site.

[Andrew Brown]

The Official RAN History says she was between Simonstown (Cape Town) & Sydney.

I seem to recall that HMAS Australia reached Perth after the start of hostilities, before moving on to Sydney, which means she would have been somewhere in the Indian Ocean at start. But I can't remember where I saw that (I thought it was in the official history?).

Andrew

[Don Bowen]

My best information is that Perth was in harbor at Sydney when war began (along with Canberra). The two exercised off Sydney (with Le Triomphant) for a couple of days and then sailed toward Suva to excort the Pensacola convoy.

[JeffroK]

[font="arial"]From http://www.perthone.com/1aust42.htm

PERTH left for Melbourne on 26th November and then escorted the liner MARIPOSA from mid Tasman to Sydney.  On 8th December (EST) war was declared on Japan.  PERTH patrolled the Tasman with CANBERRA  and after calling at Brisbane,  both ships sailed for New Caledonia arriving off there on the 18th December.  After escorting a convoy to Brisbane both ships returned to Sydney.[/font]

From http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-06CL-Perth.htm
I think my first placement of Auckland is wrong by 12 mths.

July EXPORTER deployment to support military operations in continuation.

7th Bombarded Vichy shore battery at Abney, Damour.

Took passage to Alexandria and bombed by RAF aircraft without damage.

12th Whilst at Alexandria nominated for return to RAN service following Japanese threat

of attacks.

18th Sailed from Alexandria for passage to Sydney.



August On passage.

12th Rejoined RAN and taken in hand for refit.



September Under refit.

to

November



December Post refit trials.

8th Deployed with HM Australian Cruiser CANBERRA for patrol in Tasman Sea.

12th Escorted US troop convoy with HMAS CANBERRA for final part of passage to Australia.

19th Escorted US troop convoy to New Caledonia with HMAS CANBERRA and

HM New Zealand Cruiser ACHILLES.

22nd Return passage to Sydney with HMAS CANBERRA and HMNZS ACHILLES.

29th Escorted military convoy ZK5 from Sydney to Port Moresby, New Guinea with

HMAS AUSTRALIA, HMAS CANBERRA, HMNZS ACHILLES and two RAN

Sloops.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

[font="arial"]From http://www.perthone.com/1aust42.htm

PERTH left for Melbourne on 26th November and then escorted the liner MARIPOSA from mid Tasman to Sydney.  On 8th December (EST) war was declared on Japan.  PERTH patrolled the Tasman with CANBERRA  and after calling at Brisbane, both ships sailed for New Caledonia arriving off there on the 18th December.  After escorting a convoy to Brisbane both ships returned to Sydney.[/font]

Doesn't disagree with my information at all. The two cruisers met the Pensacola convoy at sea somewhere around/south of New Caledonia and escorted it to Australia. One of the Neq Zealand pair was involved as well.

Checked all I can - I am convinced that Sydney is the correct location for Perth as of scenario start.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: JeffK

[font="arial"]From http://www.perthone.com/1aust42.htm

PERTH left for Melbourne on 26th November and then escorted the liner MARIPOSA from mid Tasman to Sydney.  On 8th December (EST) war was declared on Japan.  PERTH patrolled the Tasman with CANBERRA  and after calling at Brisbane, both ships sailed for New Caledonia arriving off there on the 18th December.  After escorting a convoy to Brisbane both ships returned to Sydney.[/font]

Doesn't disagree with my information at all. The two cruisers met the Pensacola convoy at sea somewhere around/south of New Caledonia and escorted it to Australia. One of the Neq Zealand pair was involved as well.

Checked all I can - I am convinced that Sydney is the correct location for Perth as of scenario start.

Yep, I looked at a few more points and found that in Nov 40, Perth was around NZ, eiher my first info was wrong or I cant type[:D]

[JeffroK]

Have you seen this.    http://www.naval-history.net

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Have you seen this.    http://www.naval-history.net

Yes. Don Kindle has kindly provided some additional data not on the web site for Da Babes.

[JeffroK]

Next quiz is about HMAS' Ballarat & Toowoomba. (Bathurst Class)

Many references place them at Singapore at the outbreak of war (including naval-history.net), others have them in OZ though they were earmarked to escort convoys heading to Singapore. (Ballarat was only 1-2 out of arriving in Darwim, the Toowoomba was in Sydney.)