Rambo paratroopers

garry · Post by **garry** » Sun Nov 19, 2000 1:39 am

Aything going to be done about Paratroopers landing and being ready to fight and full strength even when they land in woods. Surely the opposition player should get OP fire at them as they are coming down and additional losses for landing in woods.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Nov 19, 2000 9:11 pm

I have seen them suppressed to one degree or another depending on where they land. Actual losses is another matter indeed and should be considered. Thanks, Garry. Good point.

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

ARIS · Post by **ARIS** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:09 am

I agree with Garry. Also,it is a miracle how those partisans pop up behind enemy lines and start killing people before been spotted. I have used them in my pbem battles against the Germans, and they are better than any tank.

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:20 am

to Aris: I've been crushed with partisans. It is though one way to kill the Tiger. 'Beam up ,Scotty' comes to my mind when I think this Sovjet warptechnology during WW2 ; ) Ok, I have SpecOps, but out of six only two infiltrates succesfully. Is same ratio with partisans and sappers? How about US-Rangers, do they walk themselves to death as Germans do?

GrinningDwarf · Post by **GrinningDwarf** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:34 am

Originally posted by ARIS:
Also,it is a miracle how those partisans pop up behind enemy lines and start killing people before been spotted. I have used them in my pbem battles against the Germans, and they are better than any tank.

So you're the guy!! Those partisan @#!**#'s out there are your little henchmen! The second SP:W@W scenario I played was the German stronghold defense against a Russian assault that is one of the first few listed (I'm at work right now and don't recall the title, but y'all know the one I'm talking about!) in the scenarios.

It was bad enough not seeing were the fire was coming from out on my outpost line, but when my CP started taking small arms fire...well inside the perimeter...that was ridiculous! Fortunately, I got a squad where they could see the camo'd little buggers and all my 81mm mortars got redirected stright to them! One of my reinforcing platoons got into a blocking position, and the CP held. Unfortunately, one of my mortars ran outta ammo on those...those...guys. I beat the Russians back, but came out with a draw because I didn't counter-attack soon enough and reclaim the crossroads victory hexes. One hex away from each of the victory hexes when time ran out!

[This message has been edited by GrinningDwarf (edited November 19, 2000).]

Captn_Jack · Post by **Captn_Jack** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 5:05 am

Those SpecOps are tough as hell when they appear...just played a PBEM game where 2 units just happened to infiltrate my rear area. Each one appeared in a hex that was controlled by a squad of infantry, a ht and a mg....those 2 SpecOps nearly wiped all 6 units out...only a few inf straglers were left when I got the turn back...

Unreal!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 5:25 am

Partisan raids were highly feared by the Germans on the Eastern Front. They were also quite effective. There are numerous examples of rear area units being taken totally by surprise and wiped out or nearly so on a number of different occasions.

And that also goes for war. Never take anything for granted (and that also goes for some scenario designers too )

WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 5:34 am

to Captn_Jack: Yup. That is what they do. It's nasty when you don't see them. If you leave them untouched at their arrival you have serious problem at your rear. Watch out continuesly that asterisk at your units statusbar. If it is there your troops are under somebodys watch. Then you'll have to find those eagle-eyes and kill them admittedly if you know they are new eyes looking at you. Or then you can move your troops to a position where that asterisk disappears and by this you get the control of happenings. Keep in mind line of sight, by little practise it is kinda piece of cake to figure out where infiltrators are. It becomes more complicated at every turn that eyes have left destroyed.

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 10:45 am

Russo partisans are just great. I'm playing against a whole bunch of them in a PBEM and have a very tough time. They have SMG's for close range fights, rifles for medium range fighting and even sniper rifles for longer ranges! Makes it tough for the German infantry.

garry · Post by **garry** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:57 pm

Best thing for partisans is german motorcycles. Partisans are not too keen to shoot up on them. Also my setup startegy change drastically now i know the effectiveness of them. I shy away from good defensive rough hexes on mountains to more open ground defense. Nothing worse than having all you AT positions destroyed cause they are in the obvious defensive position.

Originally posted by Fredde:
Russo partisans are just great. I'm playing against a whole bunch of them in a PBEM and have a very tough time. They have SMG's for close range fights, rifles for medium range fighting and even sniper rifles for longer ranges! Makes it tough for the German infantry.

garry · Post by **garry** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 3:00 pm

Actually a good house rule for paratroopers is not to allow them to rally or fire in the turn that they drop. If they happen to land on an enemy unit it would make sure that the units on the ground get first shot(they may op fire however). The units rally automatically at the end of the turn but allowing your opponent first shot reflects the need for paratroopers to assemble and locate their weapons containers etc.[

QUOTE]Originally posted by Wild Bill:
I have seen them suppressed to one degree or another depending on where they land. Actual losses is another matter indeed and should be considered. Thanks, Garry. Good point.

[/QUOTE]

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 11:24 pm

Originally posted by Fredde:
Russo partisans are just great. I'm playing against a whole bunch of them in a PBEM and have a very tough time. They have SMG's for close range fights, rifles for medium range fighting and even sniper rifles for longer ranges! Makes it tough for the German infantry.

Too tough - tougher than intended in fact.

There's a little bug in the OOB - the sniper rifle is "primary infantry weapon", what means that it is fired by every member of the squad ... but as it's in slot 3 (IIRC) it's only meant to be fired once.

Changing the "weapon class" to "secondary inf. weap." (as grenades, MGs etc.) would correct this and is considered by the OOB team at the moment ... we are still waiting for comment from the Matrix Staff.

Arralen

john g · Post by **john g** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 12:20 am

Originally posted by garry:
Actually a good house rule for paratroopers is not to allow them to rally or fire in the turn that they drop. If they happen to land on an enemy unit it would make sure that the units on the ground get first shot(they may op fire however). The units rally automatically at the end of the turn but allowing your opponent first shot reflects the need for paratroopers to assemble and locate their weapons containers etc.[

QUOTE]Originally posted by Wild Bill:
I have seen them suppressed to one degree or another depending on where they land. Actual losses is another matter indeed and should be considered. Thanks, Garry. Good point.

[/QUOTE]

Having dropped US paras on top of an ai armor battalion (didn't realize that is how the ai times the arrival at the front line, they just start the armor further back) I saw an entire company reduced to 12 men and a mg team by the time they could run back to some trees to hide until the tanks got there. The paras were anything but ready to fight when they dropped, they took out 2 tanks in the drop zone but were all but wiped out, with units staying near 90 suppression until they surrendered. It was nothing like the German drops I was used to with my WWII campaign. There the paras were able to split up in platoons and rampage anywhere they wanted to. There must be some code already in place to add supression to units when they drop on top of the enemy, and I noticed that units who dropped into the same hexes as other paras took additional supression, some of the units were up over 40 supression even before they started getting shot at.
thanks, John.

ARIS · Post by **ARIS** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 1:25 am

My suggestions (which is my opinion about real life):
Paratroops, when landing, there should be op-fire by enemy units.
Commandos and partisans, if there are enemy units near the hex they try to infiltrate, just place them somewhat far from that spots, in a hex with no enemy presence near it. Or just make them follow a path from the map edge to a point close to their destination, and then the enemy has op-fire, the battle starts there.

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Wed Nov 22, 2000 12:41 pm

I havent had any problem With tose partisans and sappers.
ARIS knows this.......................
Tatick is the keyword here...ask ARIS:::::

Originally posted by ARIS:
I agree with Garry. Also,it is a miracle how those partisans pop up behind enemy lines and start killing people before been spotted. I have used them in my pbem battles against the Germans, and they are better than any tank.

GrinningDwarf · Post by **GrinningDwarf** » Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:05 pm

Originally posted by Tortfeasor:
I havent had any problem With tose partisans and sappers.
ARIS knows this.......................
Tatick is the keyword here...ask ARIS:::::

So how about sharing some of those anti-partisan/anti-sapper tactics with the class? We're not asking for your entire bag of tricks, but how about throwing us a bone?

Kluckenbill · Post by **Kluckenbill** » Wed Nov 22, 2000 7:42 pm

I love Partisans when I play Russian and hate them when I'm German. The big advantage of Partisans over other countries special op's units is that they are so cheap. I always take a platoon or 2 of them in PBEM games and sneak them deep into the enemy's rear and try to take a victory area. If I can find an unoccupied victory area I move in and set the boys to "defend" and wait for the counterattack.

As German I always buy a few extra MMG units and set a section up to cover every controlled victory area. Usually they can chew up a couple of squads of Partisans. If the Partisans appear in force, the MMG's can usually keep them occupied until reinforcements can arrive. I do the same thing when playing other countries to defend against spec op's, rangers etc. but they aren't as big a problem since they are more expensive to buy.

The biggest problem I have with this whole issue of Partisans, Special Op's and Airborne, is that we generally have way too many objectives for the size of unit we are dealing with, especially when attacking. I believe that in real life, a Batallion sized unit would have only a few (1 to 3) objectives. These would all be behind enemy lines and other units would be responsible for securing their own rear area.

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Target, Cease Fire !

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Wed Nov 22, 2000 11:34 pm

Sorry GrinningDwarf.
No lose end`s.
I am in War with ARIS.

ARIS · Post by **ARIS** » Fri Nov 24, 2000 12:58 am

Originally posted by Tortfeasor:
I havent had any problem With tose partisans and sappers.
ARIS knows this.......................
Tatick is the keyword here...ask ARIS:::::

Ofcourse Tortfeasor was unable to see the replays... known bug of SPWAW.
Also, did you wonder why all that artillery was falling far away from the front line?

I've been killing men,supply trucks and mortars with my partisans so far in my battle against Tort. And I was able to see his attack plan (hard to have one with a map full of troops:19000 purchase pts)

[This message has been edited by ARIS (edited November 23, 2000).]

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Fri Nov 24, 2000 1:05 pm

The only problem I have with ARIS is his arty.
I think ARIS Sappers and partisan have cost more for him (not mutch more but anyway more) than they have kild mine troops.
Atleast the defeat figure is for Sappers and partisan is +-0% .

[This message has been edited by Tortfeasor (edited November 24, 2000).]