possible TOAW bug?

Norm Koger's The Operational Art of War III is the next game in the award-winning Operational Art of War game series. TOAW3 is updated and enhanced version of the TOAW: Century of Warfare game series. TOAW3 is a turn based game covering operational warfare from 1850-2015. Game scale is from 2.5km to 50km and half day to full week turns. TOAW3 scenarios have been designed by over 70 designers and included over 130 scenarios. TOAW3 comes complete with a full game editor.

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larryfulkerson
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possible TOAW bug?

Post by larryfulkerson »

I was updating my losses.gif file with the losses from turn 13 when I noticed something strange. I'm gaining some 8K HRS squads somehow. Here's my thinking:

Code: Select all

 turn	# assigned	# on-hand	# lost
 --------------------------------------------------
 1	37320		361		0
 13	36519		733		13895
 
 production rate is 428 HRS squads per turn ( none produced in turn 1 )
 
 turn
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1	assigned and on-hand = 37320 + 361 = 37681 HRS squads existing - losses a
 2	plus 428 from production                                       - losses b
 3	plus 428 from production                                       - losses c
 4	plus 428 from production                                       - losses d
 5	plus 428 from production                                       - losses e
 6	plus 428 from production                                       - losses f
 7	plus 428 from production                                       - losses g
 8	plus 428 from production                                       - losses h
 9	plus 428 from production                                       - losses i
 10	plus 428 from production                                       - losses j
 11	plus 428 from production                                       - losses k
 12	plus 428 from production                                       - losses l
 13	plus 428 from production                                       - losses m
 
 total losses = 13895 = sum of losses a+b+cx+d+e+f+g+h+i+j+k+l+m
 
 so the number of HRS squads existing in turn 13 should be:
 	T13_assigned_ = T1_assigned_&_on_hand + production - total_losses - T13_on_hand
 
 so:     36519 = 37681 + ( 12 * 428 ) - 13895 - 733
 
 
         but 37681 + (12*428) - 13895 - 733 = 28189 or 8330 smaller
         than 36519 so what gives?
 
 
 
 
 .
 





.

..



..
so um.......somewhere between turn 1 and turn 13 I gained some 8,000+ HRS squads and I have no idea where they are coming from. Anybody have any ideas?

EDIT: never mind, I forgot to factor in the reinforcements that the Axis gets from time to time.
We've all heard how computers can beat humans at anything computational but I've yet to meet a computer that can beat me at kick boxing.
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Panama
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by Panama »

Also, as you move your units suffer a bit of attrition that goes back into the replacement pool. Moving over 100 divisions might create a 'few' replacements. [;)]
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desert
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by desert »

Reinforcements?

EDIT: Ach, don't make your edits so inconspicuous!
"I would rather he had given me one more division"
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M1 Tanker
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by M1 Tanker »

Larry, have you added the strengths of new units entering play as reinforcements? These numbers would be added to the assigned column.
-------------------

Ah, yes! I see now your catch in your edit.
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el cid
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by el cid »

One question, during combat you loose some units, but not all are permanently lost, a part of them go back to the replacement pool.

The question is, does the losses on the table count only the permanent losses, or also the ones that go back to the replacement pool?
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by larryfulkerson »

ORIGINAL: el cid
...does the losses on the table count only the permanent losses, or also the ones that go back to the replacement pool?
I'm under the impression that every unit is counted. That equipment that is only "damaged" go to the on-hand column and that equipment that is truly lost permanently is listed as "lost". At least this is my impression. I've done some tests and watched the numbers change and have come to this conclusion.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Hey Mr. Fulkerson, I ran some tests a while back also and agree with you. I didn't save any of of that stuff but it is easy to recreate, so lets watch.

One unit from each side, both with 750 tanks and no replacements.

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sPzAbt653
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by sPzAbt653 »

After turn 1 movement only, the top part of the screen shot shows that when moving 77% of its movement allowance, the unit lost 21 tanks. I ended the turn at that point without doing anything else, and the bottom part of the screen shot shows the at start of turn 2. So after losing 21 tanks enroute, they got 14 of them repaired and 7 are still awaiting repairs.

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sPzAbt653
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Of course, in all of these screen shots we are only concerned with the PzKpfw IVH's and the T-34/76 (late)'s.

This screen shot shows the results of two combat rounds.

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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by sPzAbt653 »

After those two rounds, we can see that part of those 'disabled' went to 'lost' while part went to 'on hand'.

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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by sPzAbt653 »

And a shot of player 2's situation before he has moved or executed any combats (but after the player 1 attacks).

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sPzAbt653
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Beginning of turn 2. The only action for either of these units was player 1 moved the German unit, incurred some losses in transit, then attacked the Soviet unit and incurred losses to both sides. The results confirm that damaged goes to on hand and destroyed goes to lost.

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sPzAbt653
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RE: possible TOAW bug?

Post by sPzAbt653 »

The way I see it, this has an effect on scenario replacement rate calculation. One example would be German transport on the Eastern Front. For one period, they historically lost 74,000 vehicles to a replacement total of 7,400, and 180,000 horses got 20,000 replacements. In TOAW I think those 74,000 lost trucks and 180,000 lost horses would generate a huge amount for the 'on hand' category. A similar issue could be with the Soviet airforce (and much other Soviet equipment) at the start of Barbarossa. TOAW will send many of the planes lost to the on hand category, while the large percentage of them were historically destroyed forever. In 'Soviet Union 1941' I think Bob Cross addresses this issue by starting the Soviet Force with no supply (as unsupplied equipment is totally lost). I'm not sure if this works for air units, as those seem to operate under their own rules, I think. Hope I didn't misinterpret that design choice.
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