Low Level Naval Attacks

[spence]

When AE was in development there was considerable talk about skip bombing and other low level naval attacks. I can't seem to find a specific mention of skipbombing in the manual though.

It seems that there are some criterion for un-penalized low level attacks since I remember reading something about some planes carrying only half as many bombs or some such.

What planes are not penalized though?

Are all the same bombers that are penalized for performing low level naval attack similarly penalized for performing low level ground attack or is it a different list?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: spence

When AE was in development there was considerable talk about skip bombing and other low level naval attacks. I can't seem to find a specific mention of skipbombing in the manual though.

It seems that there are some criterion for un-penalized low level attacks since I remember reading something about some planes carrying only half as many bombs or some such.

What planes are not penalized though?

Are all the same bombers that are penalized for performing low level naval attack similarly penalized for performing low level ground attack or is it a different list?

bombers rated as "attack bombers" attack at 100ft and attack with their full bomb load. There are also some Navy bomber versions attacking with full load on low nav attacks, but those aren´t attacking at 100ft by default like the "attack bombers". I don´t know every type by heart, but IIRC michaelm once posted a list with all bombers which are available for lownav attacks with full load.

All other bombers attack with their load halved when attacking below 6000ft.

[JohnDillworth]

Keep in mind like everything else, this works much better with training. Find out which bombers work (probably the B-25's with all the machine guns up front)and which units will upgrade to that plan and start training them at 100ft for naval attack

[vinnie71]

Guess Marauders and later Invaders as well. Then there are the Havocs (A-20???) which should work as well.
 
But how do you recognise that they are skip bombing?

[greg_slith]

The B-25D1 also seems to be a skip bomber or at least it likes to be Very Low level bomber. My problem with these A/C is that no matter what altitude I set them they always attack at 100 feet. Fine if it's against a naval target but they also attack airfields, ports, troops, you name it, at 100ft. In my game I have a couple very high exp squadrons of B-25D1's who can't hit the broad side of a barn at 100ft. They were getting great LCU kills at 6000ft in their B-25C's. I upgraded because there were no C's left and now they are generally worthless. On a normal 12 plane strike against ships I'll get 3-4 mg hits and maybe 1-2 500lb bomb hits. Seems a little low for a squadron with 80+ exp, but, whatever. The fact that they can't hit any parked A/C on a base with @ 300 Japanese planes nor can they hit the runway does give me pause[:)].

It would be nice if this was looked into, not a game breaker in my opinion, but does leave a strange aftertaste.

Greg

[Lecivius]

I have to admit I am perturbed at my Army attack bombers not able to hit the broadside of a barn at 70+ exp. on AK's unloading 4 squares away.  Only Banshee's do squat.

[spence]

On a normal 12 plane strike against ships I'll get 3-4 mg hits and maybe 1-2 500lb bomb hits. Seems a little low for a squadron with 80+ exp, but, whatever. The fact that they can't hit any parked A/C on a base with @ 300 Japanese planes nor can they hit the runway does give me pause.

In the Battle of the Bismarck Sea the skip-bombers got somewhere around 50% hits against ships. The descriptions seem to indicate that B-25s modified with forward firing machineguns (D1's?), A-20s and Australian Beauforts made low level attacks but there may be a bit of fog of war incorporated in the summary.

From what I've read the D1's specialized in low level attack whether against ground or naval targets. Training in low level attack might be required but from all I've read hitting a target was a lot easier from low altitude so it would seem that the "high experience" requirement for success is counter-historical.

The USN 2E and 4E bombers didn't skip-bomb per se but their doctrine called for naval attacks at the lowest practicable altitude: called masthead attacks. The altitude formula used basically meant that the altitude in ft equaled the weight of the bomb in pounds. The navy bombers tended to carry a mix of 500 lb GPs and 100 lb GPs on naval attacks.

Your experience with skip-bombers' accuracy against both ships and ground targets seems way too low.

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I have to admit I am perturbed at my Army attack bombers not able to hit the broadside of a barn at 70+ exp. on AK's unloading 4 squares away.  Only Banshee's do squat.

I believe there is a restriction of experience level "80" before skip bombing becomes effective. Not sure why, as the attack profile is easier to master than that of a torpedo bomber (and you get to shoot back at the enemy to boot.) May have something to do with the fact that only the Allies have the Aircraft (gunships) to make it work.

[mike scholl 1]

Bump.  Can one of the designers confirm if  "exp 80" is involved in this?

[Sardaukar]

I think there are some differences between A/C classes. I could not get my Beaufighters to hit anything at 100ft, before I realised that they were classified as Fighter Bombers. Apparently those attack best at 1000ft, so setting altitude that that cured the problem and they started to hit just fine. Check the classification of planes involved (medium bomber, attack bomber, fighter bomber), mediums should work fime when set 100ft, but others may require setting to 1000ft, for example.

I don't think there is 80 exp limit with skip bombing in AE and I seem to recall it was confirmed by devs.

[JohnDillworth]

Bump. Can one of the designers confirm if "exp 80" is involved in this?

Rally, so the individual skill level does not come into play? All my training is usless because I don't have the experience. Little help developers.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Bump. Can one of the designers confirm if "exp 80" is involved in this?

Rally, so the individual skill level does not come into play? All my training is usless because I don't have the experience. Little help developers.

doubt that exp is needed, skill works just fine. My bombers chew up the Japanese just fine with lownav skill 70 and that´s what is used for attacks below 6000ft, which also includes skip bombing (there´s no special skill for it). If you also want to see MG and cannon hits on 100ft attacks, you have to train strafe too, but I really don´t care about cal.50 hits that won´t do any notable damage, it´s the 500lb bomb hits that count...

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

doubt that exp is needed, skill works just fine. My bombers chew up the Japanese just fine with lownav skill 70 and that´s what is used for attacks below 6000ft, which also includes skip bombing (there´s no special skill for it). If you also want to see MG and cannon hits on 100ft attacks, you have to train strafe too, but I really don´t care about cal.50 hits that won´t do any notable damage, it´s the 500lb bomb hits that count...

I find myself getting 1-3 bomb hits when skip bombing..., but when I check the unit involved I find that the number of bomb hits seems to correlate to the number of pilots with "low naval" skill of 80+. And that seems an awfully high prerequisite for a pretty simple attack profile.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: castor troy

doubt that exp is needed, skill works just fine. My bombers chew up the Japanese just fine with lownav skill 70 and that´s what is used for attacks below 6000ft, which also includes skip bombing (there´s no special skill for it). If you also want to see MG and cannon hits on 100ft attacks, you have to train strafe too, but I really don´t care about cal.50 hits that won´t do any notable damage, it´s the 500lb bomb hits that count...

I find myself getting 1-3 bomb hits when skip bombing..., but when I check the unit involved I find that the number of bomb hits seems to correlate to the number of pilots with "low naval" skill of 80+. And that seems an awfully high prerequisite for a pretty simple attack profile.

skill 80+ sounds high yeah. Now we´re talking about skill though, not experience.

[Sardaukar]

I am quite I have seen one of Devs (be they blessed [8D]) to say there is no exp-limit in skip bombing. My search of forum has not confirmed that yet. 

[JohnDillworth]

you have to train strafe too

How does one train to strafe?

[jay102]

What's the best altitude for level bomber naval attack when skill is around 60-70? 

5000? 1000? 100?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

you have to train strafe too

How does one train to strafe?

guess by setting them to 100ft? now when I think about that, wouldn´t it be best to set them on 100ft training because that would train strafe AND lownav?

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: jay102

What's the best altitude for level bomber naval attack when skill is around 60-70? 

5000? 1000? 100?

Beats me. The ones I train for low level naval (gunship models of the A-20, A26, and B-25) always seem to strafe no mater what levels I set them at.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: jay102

What's the best altitude for level bomber naval attack when skill is around 60-70? 

5000? 1000? 100?

Beats me. The ones I train for low level naval (gunship models of the A-20, A26, and B-25) always seem to strafe no mater what levels I set them at.

yes, attack bombers always strafe... other medium bombers will stay at their preset alt to bomb... note that not all B-25 are attack bombers, the B-25C for example is a medium level bomber.