IGI-UGO and sim dip

[Dancing Bear]

Hi Marshall
if you are going to put the IGO-UGO code back in, can you also keep in the sim phase code? You would have following If, Then logic:

1) If number of of human players =7, then game uses the sim code (i.e. leave this code in instead of taking it out, but only use it if there are 7 players)
2) If number of human players <7, then game uses the IGO-UGO code (i.e. the game uses the code you just put back in, and ignores the sim code).

Since 99% of human games have 7 players, this effectively lets us keep sim dip.

Finally, when you put the IGO-UGO code back in for the eco phase, can you make Spain first in this phase, so there is a chance if she is going last in the land phase, the Spanish player gets a double phase play?

You already know this, but it is time to get the next BETA out. There are so many, small problems that are fixed with 1.08, that are causing problems with ongoing games that need these fixes. It appears there is only one naval battle bug involving allies that is a serious outstanding bug with the game that is not fixed in 1.08. Otherwise the game is up and running, with no major bugs.

[Dancing Bear]

If the above is going to take too long, then given that it has been so long, maybe return to the IGO-UGO code for the BETA, but leave the sim dip code in there, but inactive for now. Then while we players can move ahead with a robust BETA, perhaps you can clear up the last issue with initiating the sim code from the combat phase before the final release, with Del's group running the final tests.

[MarshallEllis]

DB:

I hope to have a 1..08.04 next week!

[Dancing Bear]

Hi Marshall
Next week would be very good, this is a long awaited upgrade. Hopefully Matrix doesn't take three weeks to post it to their website this time (I'm assuming there'll be no corporate takeovers to delay things).

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

DB:

I hope to have a 1..08.04 next week!

[delatbabel]

Overall, across a couple of games, I am not finding simul dip helps much. Most players just sit around waiting for what they expect to be their turn, rather than all doing dip at once. That might change with time as players get used to it but at the moment it's just confusion in the dip phase.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Overall, across a couple of games, I am not finding simul dip helps much. Most players just sit around waiting for what they expect to be their turn, rather than all doing dip at once. That might change with time as players get used to it but at the moment it's just confusion in the dip phase.

You're not helping... sheesh!

[MarshallEllis]

Actually, I'm seeing this in several games that I am watching as well.
Bottom line, you still cannot move on until ALL players submit their turn.
If someone goes on vacation ... then the game waits ... simultaneously of course LOL!

[Skanvak]

Instead of pbem, I think that is direct play that should be devellopped.

In pbem, it is normal to wait and have slow game.

[Dancing Bear]

I assume that all players, except Spain can still skip, is that right?

I think it will take a little time for players to get used to the idea, but it will be faster, particularly during the first year.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Actually, I'm seeing this in several games that I am watching as well.
Bottom line, you still cannot move on until ALL players submit their turn.
If someone goes on vacation ... then the game waits ... simultaneously of course LOL!

Sure. If the turns are 24 hours then every should have their Dip turned in after 24 hours (instead of 168 hours). This is expected, correct?

[MarshallEllis]

The games I watch get into sort-of-a schedule if you would. They just don't seem to get backed up and the pace typically is acceptable to the players. Maybe I should not have tried to fix what works LOL??? You got me?????????????

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

The games I watch get into sort-of-a schedule if you would. They just don't seem to get backed up and the pace typically is acceptable to the players. Maybe I should not have tried to fix what works LOL??? You got me?????????????

No, I'm thinking the other way around... try harder. [:)]

A 7x speedup is very good and worth the development time, IMO.

[Dancing Bear]

I'm with Neverman. I think it will be worth the development time.

It did take 8 months to get to the 1.08.04 release, but there is much more than sim dip in this release. There are a huge number of fixes in this version to some thorny problems that have plagued the game from the beginning. I'm impatient for this release, but I think it will be the one that finally gets all the elements right. The sooner it gets out the better. I'm hoping with the test games Marshall and Del has ran this through, it really doesn't need much work. Most earlier releases needed several significant iterations to get a stable release, while this one has undergone some serious testing by PBEM players before release. That took some time, but should result in a better release this time.

[MarshallEllis]

I guess what I am saying is that the actual ROI is not 7X for most games because most PBEM games run at a more relaxed pace. BTW: Not worth it for now because of the length of time vs improvement. Been way too long for this release.

[Yearworld]

For faster paced games Sim Dip does work well. In the War of Austrian Succession Campaign I am playing using version 1.08.03 we got through the entire Dip phase in less than 24 hours. Since Dip phase comes up every turn and is rarely skipped this makes the game go about 1/4th faster. So I think it is worth the work Marshall put in.

Yearworld

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Yearworld

For faster paced games Sim Dip does work well. In the War of Austrian Succession Campaign I am playing using version 1.08.03 we got through the entire Dip phase in less than 24 hours. Since Dip phase comes up every turn and is rarely skipped this makes the game go about 1/4th faster. So I think it is worth the work Marshall put in.

Yearworld

Good to hear! Sounds great!

[Yearworld]

Sim Dip is also great because many EIA PBEM games have players in different time zones. Sim Dip lets everyone play their turn when it is best for them rather than waiting for another player. Like Del said above it does take some getting used to but after a little time when players understand it the game does go much faster. If there was Sim Reinforcement(and I know some are against this) the game would go at about 2x the speed of now and could be finished in a much shorter time. Sim Econ is not really needed because only happens rarely. Just my opinions.

Yearworld

[Dancing Bear]

I'd love to have sim rein.

[MarshallEllis]

BTW: Sim Diplomacy is staying.
ECO is out!

Will release 1.08 probably with the requirement that Spain NOT be AI for now (In PBEM only). There are too many fixes in 1.08 that need to be released now! THEN I can work 1.09 to have the AI take care of the simul diplomacy loading. Been so long that somey bugs are being re-reported!

[MarshallEllis]

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

I'd love to have sim rein.

DB:

No can do on this one! Reinf turn ordering is intentional and allows Gb and Fr to review new corps placements.