New game of WAW U2 ( Bono V.) version

[kondor]

In France front. All that can fly sent on attack on Paris. It's heavily guarded by 9 imm. flaks and a luftwaffe unit. Results where welcomed. Lots of enemy units destroyed...
GE just can't compete with air force and that should bring me Paris...soon...

[kondor]

In SU, attack on Kharkov ordered-failed. Lots of small skirmishes from Tula to Dnepropetrovsk. GE didn't suffer much. It is hard to win vs heavy tank II, or GE tankdestroyer II supported with artillery and Luftwaffe...
Cveta has made lots of elite units and they are tough to crack...

Next turn I expect heavy casulties rate on my side...

In China IJA made another run for Hanoi from Canton. Three units, two have made it to the city limits. And third one was bombed and attacked so this two are now surrounded...

Changsha razed to the ground by arty-s and attacked from three sides in two waves, but defenders saved the city-this turn...

It is amazing how many artillery China has now. I did invest a lot as WA into China, but I think that they are a bit to strong now...
I have FT-s II (from WA). LB-s, arty-s...

Maybe it would be better if WA can sent to China only supply and PP, not a FT-s?

[explorer2]

Regarding China getting overly strong:
You're absolutely right. One reason was a simple typo, which gave China Level Bombers.
The other was a mistake in the coding, which allowed West to give them as much as West wanted to EACH turn.
Both were my mistakes, both corrected in version U4.
Flying Tigers can still be sent (true to history) but you won't be able to send the quantity that was sent in the last couple of versions.

[cveta]

ORIGINAL: explorer2

Regarding China getting overly strong:
You're absolutely right. One reason was a simple typo, which gave China Level Bombers.
The other was a mistake in the coding, which allowed West to give them as much as West wanted to EACH turn.
Both were my mistakes, both corrected in version U4.
Flying Tigers can still be sent (true to history) but you won't be able to send the quantity that was sent in the last couple of versions.

Yes - china is killing so many Japs that my manpover goes under 100 in 1942. I was forced to produce at least 30-50 inf per turn to have 900 pp in Asia and to be able to hold China back ( partualy for a great gameplay by kondor ).But to face 10 or more china artilery and fighters?? It is almost impassible to beat them since they are protected by flak with three hex range and in mountains constantly. I tray few attacks on art. but all afiled due to air and flak cover.
I didnot put post of my last turn. Here are the resaons - I surender the game to kondor.
Reasons - Germany attack on Leningrad went badfor 4th time. Air attack couse me loses of 9 DBII, 3-4 Fighters and few LB. Demage done to city is so low that I star to curse. Again - city is protected by 2 flaks II and 2 costal batteries ( and look at the kondor score in Paris ).
Then artilery atack foloved wich couse loss of 4 my art units ( 8 attack ) and city was protected by 4 artilery ( kondor corect me if I am wrong ). Demage done to city - what demage?
That cause more curses.
Than land attack start from Finland with new germany units - 30 rifle, 10SMG, 5 mg and 5 mortar ( exp 50, red 100 )
From other side SS corps - lots of everithing, high exp( 60-80 ). 2 waves of attacks. Results - defender lose aproximatly 10-20 inf, 1 art unit and few stuff. Germany attacker were anhilated - 1 hewa tank,1med tank, 1 arm.car, aprox 100 inf and some halftrucks.
After that I quit.
After taking 24 hours to cool down I play myturn again becouse of Japs - and surender the Germany ( we will keep on playing just for few turnsmore)
Japan - with low manpover last 2 turns I was not able to produce almost noting. Warning of low manpover came too late ( it was under 80 ) and we are in 1942 soInever thought about that.
After desaster with Leningrad battle I lost will toplay. I send some JA ships to searc for LRLC. I reinforce some of the cities with staff units since there is no more inf left. I play that turn in 10 minutes.
So all in all - great game. Lots of mistake from my side and briliant play from kondor. Lots of nice things hapened, and again I learn a lot. Congratulations to kondor.
As for my part - I will take a break for AT.
I found the game exelent but wery changeble in same situation. Attacks with same units, in a same conditions, brings so diferent results that it make no point in planing the attack sometimes. I know that it is frustrating to end the game like this but I cannot do it anymore. Especialy when I remember that 1st attack on Leningrad went well and I take the city few turns ago, but my kid turn AT off to be able to wach some cartoon. So all my effort to attack on the city was based on that first results ( wich were completl ydiferent than last 4 ).
Thanks all for thouse advice you send, and for a pateience with me and mybad english. I will finish other games I play ( if they ever come, w eare inactive in bouth for more than 2 weaks ) but in general I will take a break from At.

[kondor]

ORIGINAL: explorer2

Regarding China getting overly strong:
You're absolutely right. One reason was a simple typo, which gave China Level Bombers.
The other was a mistake in the coding, which allowed West to give them as much as West wanted to EACH turn.
Both were my mistakes, both corrected in version U4.
Flying Tigers can still be sent (true to history) but you won't be able to send the quantity that was sent in the last couple of versions.

In U2 version you can sent SU as much help as West wanted to... (multiple times in one turn) Is that corrected also? Or that is how suppouse to work?

[kondor]

ORIGINAL: cveta

Air attack couse me loses of 9 DBII, 3-4 Fighters and few LB. Demage done to city is so low that I star to curse. Again - city is protected by 2 flaks II and 2 costal batteries ( and look at the kondor score in Paris ).

Actually IIRC Leningrad was now defended with 2 CF-s, 1 immobile flak II, but a lots of SMG-S (around 40-50), machineguns (around 25), few AT II guns (4?) and staff (around 90) and I had left 6 artys.

So air attacks are not possible, arty attacks to because defending arty units butcher attacking ones... and with so many SMG-s and machineguns+lots of entrachement Leningrad is very, very hard to get... To bad that when you manage it (Leningrad was really down to staff, CF and a few SMG-s one period...), your kid sabotaged it [:)]... That would give SU front another spin...

Air units (besides carrier air-should not attack coastal fortresess period. Don't really matter if you have 40 DB-s ready to go, I believe that even with those numbers and only 2 coastal fortresses you would lose badly... It is some error in the code I believe... NO WAY that CF-s act as flak II... I guess that they shoot on planes with a power they shoot on ships? Or something like it...

ORIGINAL: cveta

So all in all - great game. Lots of mistake from my side and briliant play from kondor. Lots of nice things hapened, and again I learn a lot. Congratulations to kondor.
As for my part - I will take a break for AT.
I found the game exelent but wery changeble in same situation. Attacks with same units, in a same conditions, brings so diferent results that it make no point in planing the attack sometimes. I know that it is frustrating to end the game like this but I cannot do it anymore. Especialy when I remember that 1st attack on Leningrad went well and I take the city few turns ago, but my kid turn AT off to be able to wach some cartoon. So all my effort to attack on the city was based on that first results ( wich were completl ydiferent than last 4 ).
Thanks all for thouse advice you send, and for a pateience with me and mybad english. I will finish other games I play ( if they ever come, w eare inactive in bouth for more than 2 weaks ) but in general I will take a break from At.

Thank you for a great game. I learned a lot as WA and maybe something how Japan should be played...

[82ndtrooper]

Cveta I hope you don't stay away to long.
These boards wont be as fun to read.
Please don't get too discouraged because you have played some brilliant games I remember one where you pulled off sea Lion and defeated the west early against a very good player. You cant win them all.
This game takes a long time to master there are so many little tricks and tactics that can influence the game and remember for everything in this game there is a counter available. In Leningrad Kondor had dug in with SMG, these get a 50% bonus in enclosed areas like cities heavy forest fortification's etc..

so whats the counter to them ? its Infantry guns, these get a 50% bonus in attacking enclosed areas people often overlook Infantry guns and it cost them. Tanks get the opposite, they get a penalty when attacking in enclosed areas. so if you want to take a city the best units to use are SMG,Infantry Guns, infantry and mortars (mortars are the best land unit in the game and you should have tons of them as the Axis). My favorite unit is a unit with 40 infantry and 10 mortars on horseback. This unit is devastating and can fight equally well in any terrain. I find if I use this unit right it can even defeat armor units.
When playing the Axis I always make sure that each army group has some assault units. I make these units up of infantry, SMG, mortars and Infantry guns and I only use them to take the forts and cities. I never attack cities with my Armor units if I can help from it. Armors role for me is to encircle the cities and forts and cut their supply.

I wish you guys could see Explorer play the Germans, he is the very best I have ever seen. What he does to you when he hits Russia makes you feel like you have been thrown into a airplane propeller and he does it with mostly infantry. But he uses every single unit type to the absolute best of its abilities. By that I mean if there is a unit you can produce with the Germans then the German army has it and he uses it like a master.
His army cuts through you like a Japanese chef through vegetables, and you find yourself praying for winter. I am a decent player and I am better at defense then offense and in my last test game with Explorer he had all of Russia to Omsk by spring of 1942 and he did it without breaking a sweat. In fact he stopped at Omsk on his own because he wanted to test for some other things(I think he felt sorry for me haha) but he could easily have had all of Russia including Siberia by winter of 1942, taking the Russian player out of the game.
My point Cveta is don't give up, there is a lot to learn, I have been playing for years and still learn things in every game I play.

I still feel like there is something going on with your game because you had way more than your share of bad attacks. I wonder if your computer has a problem like a virus or a bad memory stick etc... These things could account for many funny things in a game. I would really check that out.

Also please note that the latest changes to the scenario include the removal of all anti aircraft abilities of the Coastal Artillery. Explorer has worked hard and made a lot of important changes to the scenario the last couple months and I think its close to being balanced. The thing to remember is that its very hard to test the changes because it takes so long to run a test game. So we count on the games that are played by others and reported on these AAR's. That is why Explorer and I comment so much in your threads. We are very interested in how things are going and we feel bad when a change that was made has a bad effect on the games you are playing. You really helped us cveta because your AAR's where not only fun to read but they where detailed and gave us important info.

/salute
Trooper

[explorer2]

Yes, truly, hats off to both of you for an interesting game.

One correction to 82nd's post: Coastal Defenses can still damage air (though not as much as before) but cannot kill air at all, and air is better able to kill Coastal Defenses.

Kondor- forgive my ignorance, but what is a CF?

[ehzorg]

he's referring to coastal fortresses (costal defense artillery).

[explorer2]

Thanks ehzorg

[GrumpyMel]

Leningrad can be a really tough nut to crack in WAW (true to History). In the game I'm playing now, what I did was cut it off... so no supply in or out... and bring in simply a MASSIVE amount of artillery to hammer it (I had something like 25 guns on it at the end).... my opponent had a massive garrison there but a couple turns of bombardment and his numbers worked against him as he wasn't able to build enough supply for his forces...and suffered a stacking penalty too. He didn't build any artillery there, so I didn't have to worry about counter-battery... but even with counter-battery the strategy works...it just usualy takes longer... basicaly Leningrad can't build and feed enough guns to effectively counter the number you can bring to bare on it. The trick is to keep it isolated and and not waste your own artillery vs counter-battery until you've built up a serious advantage in guns.

I had built up my assault forces just like 82nd Trooper described...smg's, mortars and infantry guns... in the end I hardly needed them though... after a few turns of isolation/bombardment...the starving enemy garrison fell in the first wave with minimal losses to my assault forces.

Still though, sometimes you do everything right and luck still turns against you. Stinks when it happens but those are the breaks. Hope you aren't gone for too long Cveta, really enjoy reading your AAR's.

Also not sure if you've done this...but you may want to check out some of the other scenario's at some point. WAW is an awesome scenario....probably even my favorate and Explorer has done a simply awesome job with it... but I also enjoy variety...and the engine is so versatile that some of the other scenarios feel almost like you are playing a completely different game.

For instance, something like GPW...or some of Grymme's historical ones...or even the space mods..have a very different feel of play for me.