DaBigBabes Beta errata

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

JWE, I notice that the USMC Defense Bn's (ie 2484) no longer have USMC squads as a part of their TOE.  Is this by design?

Buck

It that after TOE upgrade? I noticed that those battaillons lose their infantry after upgrade...I just don't know if that is historical or mistake. [:D]

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

...I noticed that those battaillons lose their infantry after upgrade...I just don't know if that is historical or mistake. [:D]

Historically the Defense Battalions did not have an infantry component. Provisional squads could be formed when needed from available personel (cooks, bakers, supply/service types, etc - every Marine is a rifleman!).

There were some light infantry (and light tank) units formed for attachment to a Defense Battalion under specific circumstances. Some times other units were temporarily attached (like the Raider Companies on Midway). Other times the Defense Battalions were attachments themselves (like Guadalcanal).

Not doing the Land OOB but a lack of Marine Squads (or perhaps a very restricted number) seems realistic.

[JWE]

Darn. Don beat me to it. Yeah, what he said. Just as a supplement:

As Sardaukar noted, there’s some ‘infantry’ types in the first TOE (the beach defense MMGs), but these disappear on upgrade. DefBns didn’t really have infantry – but then, every Marine a rifleman – so these were a real witch to model. They evolved twice; first into hard humping Arty Bns, then into AA Bns. A couple (later war) actually had some real infantry individually assigned, and they are represented on an individual unit basis.

So, no, MarDefBns don’t have infantry in the TOE. There’s some shoot-able and AV-able stuff in certain individual units though (Wake, fx).

Btw, we (actually Faustini) ran this by Chuck Melson (the guy who wrote those Condition Red articles), and got his input.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Darn. Don beat me to it. Yeah, what he said. Just as a supplement:

As Sardaukar noted, there’s some ‘infantry’ types in the first TOE (the beach defense MMGs), but these disappear on upgrade. DefBns didn’t really have infantry – but then, every Marine a rifleman – so these were a real witch to model. They evolved twice; first into hard humping Arty Bns, then into AA Bns. A couple (later war) actually had some real infantry individually assigned, and they are represented on an individual unit basis.

So, no, MarDefBns don’t have infantry in the TOE. There’s some shoot-able and AV-able stuff in certain individual units though (Wake, fx).

Btw, we (actually Faustini) ran this by Chuck Melson (the guy who wrote those Condition Red articles), and got his input.

Thanks guys.

Buck

[Andrew Brown]

It is my understanding that in the stock campaign, the Waziristan Division is the container unit for three brigades: Bannu, Khojak and Zhob Brigades. These are Indian invasion reinforcements (but with my map extension they are on map, which is why I am looking at this) I can see the Waziristan Div unit in Da Babes, but not the brigade units. Is this intentional? Or have they been renamed? Or do I misunderstand what these units are?

Andrew

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
It is my understanding that in the stock campaign, the Waziristan Division is the container unit for three brigades: Bannu, Khojak and Zhob Brigades. These are Indian invasion reinforcements (but with my map extension they are on map, which is why I am looking at this) I can see the Waziristan Div unit in Da Babes, but not the brigade units. Is this intentional? Or have they been renamed? Or do I misunderstand what these units are?

Andrew

There were two Waziristan divisions listed in stock; First at 7964 in the India Invasion Reinforcement special section (with no subordinate brigades).

Second at 6835 along with the brigades (which point to 6835). The second one, and all three component brigades were 9999d out (flagged inactive). So, just got rid of them. Kept the first one at 7964 because of the AI and the editor 'special section' rules.

Don't know what's better, kill #1, keep #2, or kill 2 and keep 1. Indian horse cavalry isn't my strong suit [;)]

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

(but with my map extension they are on map, which is why I am looking at this)

Andrew

Have you made an additional extension map, and if so is it available? I am always interested in anything you do.

Buck

[Buck Beach]

Don't know if you meant to or not,  but thought I’d mention, that it seems you've left out the Admiral Halstead from the TF 407 at Canton (Plum/Convoy 4002) and the game itself.
http://www.ozatwar.com/pensacola.htm
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/013_usa/_41_usn/z-convoys/convoy_4002.html
I also find several references of her being in Darwin harbor during the Japanese raid of 2/19/1942.
Buck

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

Don't know if you meant to or not,  but thought I’d mention, that it seems you've left out the Admiral Halstead from the TF 407 at Canton (Plum/Convoy 4002) and the game itself.
http://www.ozatwar.com/pensacola.htm
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/013_usa/_41_usn/z-convoys/convoy_4002.html
I also find several references of her being in Darwin harbor during the Japanese raid of 2/19/1942.
Buck

Admiral Halstead was indeed historically in the Pensacola Convoy, and I see her there in Scen 028. What scenario are you addressing?

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

Don't know if you meant to or not,  but thought I’d mention, that it seems you've left out the Admiral Halstead from the TF 407 at Canton (Plum/Convoy 4002) and the game itself.
http://www.ozatwar.com/pensacola.htm
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/013_usa/_41_usn/z-convoys/convoy_4002.html
I also find several references of her being in Darwin harbor during the Japanese raid of 2/19/1942.
Buck

Admiral Halstead was indeed historically in the Pensacola Convoy, and I see her there in Scen 028. What scenario are you addressing?

Boy, do I have mustard on my face!!! Seems like I accidentally wiped her out (in my DBB mod only) when I added a few of the mid to late war Esso's that historically made it to the Pacific. Wonder what else I screwed up,

Very sorry for wasting your time.

Embarrassed Buck

[Weidi72]

unit 5981, 8th AUS Division has each over 200 aus inf sec AND AIF aif inf sec after recombining. aussault strength nearly 600. seems a little bit too much.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Have you made an additional extension map, and if so is it available? I am always interested in anything you do.

Buck

Made but not available yet. Still working on it (for a modified Big Babes scenario).

By the way I am also interested in changes you are making or planning. From what I have read they look like interesting changes.

Andrew

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: JWE
There were two Waziristan divisions listed in stock; First at 7964 in the India Invasion Reinforcement special section (with no subordinate brigades).

Second at 6835 along with the brigades (which point to 6835). The second one, and all three component brigades were 9999d out (flagged inactive). So, just got rid of them. Kept the first one at 7964 because of the AI and the editor 'special section' rules.

Don't know what's better, kill #1, keep #2, or kill 2 and keep 1. Indian horse cavalry isn't my strong suit [;)]

Thanks. I missed the duplicate. For my purposes I need the brigades, so I will have to add them (and the division shell) in and remove the Div in slot 7964.

Andrew

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Weidi72
unit 5981, 8th AUS Division has each over 200 aus inf sec AND AIF aif inf sec after recombining. aussault strength nearly 600. seems a little bit too much.

Thank you. That was an artifact of the hidden default TO&Es. It has been fixed and will be ok in the next update.

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
Thanks. I missed the duplicate. For my purposes I need the brigades, so I will have to add them (and the division shell) in and remove the Div in slot 7964.
Andrew

We can do that too. Makes things cleaner. Please tell arrival dates and arrival bases for your stuff. We will follow your inputs.

Ciao.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Have you made an additional extension map, and if so is it available? I am always interested in anything you do.

Buck

Made but not available yet. Still working on it (for a modified Big Babes scenario).

By the way I am also interested in changes you are making or planning. From what I have read they look like interesting changes.

Andrew

Andrew,

On the off-chance that it is a map-bug instead of a movement bug, have a look at this (to make sure your new version wouldn't have the same thing):

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2547906

I don't know the verdict because it's awaiting feedback.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Andrew,

On the off-chance that it is a map-bug instead of a movement bug, have a look at this (to make sure your new version wouldn't have the same thing):
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2547906
I don't know the verdict because it's awaiting feedback.

Don't think it's a map bug, witpqs. If you do your <F6> thing, you will see the hex edge between them is nice and green, and <R> shows a nice road. The hotkeys grab data directly from the pwhex file, so something else must happening to generate your problem. Tried to reproduce it, but can't.

Suggest posting a savegame on the Tech forum would be the best solution. [:)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Andrew,

On the off-chance that it is a map-bug instead of a movement bug, have a look at this (to make sure your new version wouldn't have the same thing):
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2547906
I don't know the verdict because it's awaiting feedback.

Don't think it's a map bug, witpqs. If you do your <F6> thing, you will see the hex edge between them is nice and green, and <R> shows a nice road. The hotkeys grab data directly from the pwhex file, so something else must happening to generate your problem. Tried to reproduce it, but can't.

Suggest posting a savegame on the Tech forum would be the best solution. [:)]

Did that first thing, thanks.

Yeah, I checked with the F6 key but I figured maybe there is hidden stuff or some combination of terrain. Interestingly, the HQ unit did move direct after combat units from another direction entered the target hex. It's something weird, and it happened twice in that game (same hexes and units). First time I thought I would just try again in case I was nuts and missed something. It's cramping my style - I'm trying to trap dozens of wayward IJA units! It's a 2x2 I stepped into the middle of. China was "challenging". IJA had penetrations past Changsha, invested Changsha and Sian - threatening everywhere. So naturally I attacked. trapped some but the movement system allowed most to get away with a fierce beating.

Anyhow, Babes is looking good! Really want to start a PBM with the next version or so.

[henry1611]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Weidi72
unit 5981, 8th AUS Division has each over 200 aus inf sec AND AIF aif inf sec after recombining. aussault strength nearly 600. seems a little bit too much.

Thank you. That was an artifact of the hidden default TO&Es. It has been fixed and will be ok in the next update.

I recently started DBB Scenario 29 and am several hours into plotting my first turn with several more to go. Is the "next update" something I should wait for or, as you said with Update #2, is it "Nothing that anybody has to crash an ongoing game for"? I am making steady but very slow progress on the first turn (RL always tends to get in the way of having any fun) and am curious whether I should abandon further work using Update #2 and wait for Update #3 down the road.

Having lurked for quite awhile, it doesn't seem that you miss much but in case it got lost in the mix, I'll bump the following:

ORIGINAL:witp1951

On Scn 29 (Dec 8), the KB has max sorties and max torpedoes available. In stock Scn 6 they do not. Is this intended?

Thanks for all your efforts, which are much appreciated.

[JWE]

Hi Henry1611,

The next update is again just a bunch of “little” things. Stuff to make it go smoother, keep the AI better behaved, fix some things that are a pita, but won’t break the game. No … nothing that one should crash an ongoing game for – just stuff that will make it work a ‘leetle beet’ better the next time someone starts from the beginning - nothing fundamental.

Yeah, the number of sorties remaining for KB in scen 29 has been adjusted.

Ciao.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Hi Henry1611,

The next update is again just a bunch of “little” things. Stuff to make it go smoother, keep the AI better behaved, fix some things that are a pita, but won’t break the game. No … nothing that one should crash an ongoing game for – just stuff that will make it work a ‘leetle beet’ better the next time someone starts from the beginning - nothing fundamental.

Yeah, the number of sorties remaining for KB in scen 29 has been adjusted.

Ciao.

I know it would be a big pain in the butt JWE, but a follow up list of the changes would sure be helpful. That way we could introduce your changes into our own mods. Save oh so much work don't you know, over using a line by line needles in the haystack comparison of the datas. If not feasible well back to the drawing board.