Attack bombers broken?

[EUBanana]

Reading castor troys AAR, it looks like attack bombers are broken - I'm not talking about ships, but when they are used against ground targets.

I heard rumour to this effect a while ago but dismissed it as I thought attack bombers were only a minority of Allied bombers and so having a few pure anti-ship platforms isn't such an issue.

...apparently my thought is incorrect, as attack bombers are all the USAAF gets for medium bombers from 1943 until 1944, and then only a handful of level bombers in 1944. This seems to mean that about 50% of the US bomber force - ie the mediums - are going to be affected by this if it is buggy.

I'm not quite sure what "broken" entails so am not panicking just yet, maybe castor could comment on just what is the problem with attack bombers? But if they really are broken as in bugged, losing 50% of American bombers is into gamebreaker territory.

So I really really hope this isn't the case, or if it is, that it's going to get patched. Seems important enough for a new thread on the subject anyway! Especially as I'm not quite sure what the deal with them is. I do wanna know if when I get to 1943 all my B25s are going to be worthless, though. [:(]

[Walloc]

You might wana look at these threads

tm.asp?m=2553508

and some of the posts around post 5-10ish in this thread.

tm.asp?m=2218609

Apparently the opinions differs. How much of that is cuz of difference in use and pilot quality is ofc a valid question, tho its apparent that michaelm has found some thing. What exactly the fix will do game play wise i naturally cant say.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

[EUBanana]

OK, that doesn't look so bad.

It looks like a bug is already fixed and waiting for the next hotfix/patch, so I guess that's a relief. [:)]

[JohnDillworth]

OK, that doesn't look so bad.

Well it looks pretty bad to me until it gets fixed! [X(][:D][X(]
Like you said. Half of all Allied bombers do not work properly in the middle of the game. If Japanese bombers say, would not launch torpedoes, it would certainly change the complexion of the game. I submit that this bug is just as severe. The developers have always taken good care of us,so now that this is a know bug, I am sure it will be fixed soon.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

OK, that doesn't look so bad.

Well it looks pretty bad to me until it gets fixed! [X(][:D][X(]
Like you said. Half of all Allied bombers do not work properly in the middle of the game. If Japanese bombers say, would not launch torpedoes, it would certainly change the complexion of the game. I submit that this bug is just as severe. The developers have always taken good care of us,so now that this is a know bug, I am sure it will be fixed soon.

Well, yeah. I agree as to the severity of 50% of Allied bombers being unusable, that would be a gamebreaker.

But it looks like the bug (or a bug) has already been identified and fixed, so not so bad, I can live in hope that it'll be patched by the time I reach 1943. </selfish>

Bad luck for Castor Troy and the others suffering in 1943 with half their bombers, though! It looks like the issue is that they always strafe even at >100' so they get chewed up by AAA?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

OK, that doesn't look so bad.

Well it looks pretty bad to me until it gets fixed! [X(][:D][X(]
Like you said. Half of all Allied bombers do not work properly in the middle of the game. If Japanese bombers say, would not launch torpedoes, it would certainly change the complexion of the game. I submit that this bug is just as severe. The developers have always taken good care of us,so now that this is a know bug, I am sure it will be fixed soon.

Well, yeah. I agree as to the severity of 50% of Allied bombers being unusable, that would be a gamebreaker.

But it looks like the bug (or a bug) has already been identified and fixed, so not so bad, I can live in hope that it'll be patched by the time I reach 1943. </selfish>

Bad luck for Castor Troy and the others suffering in 1943 with half their bombers, though! It looks like the issue is that they always strafe even at >100' so they get chewed up by AAA?

that´s not the bug though afaik because they are supposed to ALWAYS attack at 100ft and therefore strafe. Seeing them attacking at 10000ft and dropping bombs from 10000ft while at the same time strafing at 100ft seems to be the bug.

I still haven´t received an answer about which SKILL those damned bombers use when attacking with their bombs? Strafe? Lowgnd, Lownav? When you could only hope and assume they would use strafe for strafing and lownav, lowgnd the same time when dropping their bombs. This doesn´t seem to be the case with my bombers though, because they never ever hit something despite having excellent BOMBING skill. No strafe skill because I have yet to find the magic button to train strafe. Nothing, no matter which attack at which alt has so far seen my bomber or fighter pilots increase strafe (only general training but that´s a joke).

So which skill is used and how can you come up with a design that has attack bombers attacking with their MGs to supress flak and you can´t train that skill other than learning by doing? And how well does that "supressing flak" work? It doesn´t in my PBEM because 32 B-25D1 attacking a rubbish SNLF with a couple of 13mm MGs usually see more than halve a dozen bombers damaged while not doing any damage. Now imagine attacking a real target and not a damned useless SNLF with a handful of MGs.

I stand by what I said, there is an identified bug that sure will be fixed, but the design itself sure got flaws too. And that will result in two years of discussion (more of the discussions as soon as the majority of PBEMs reaches mid/late 43) until something will changed (if it ever will). Therefore I´m going to do what I mentioned in my AAR already, change all attack bombers to medium bombers. Medium bombers work, attack bombers suck. This won´t help me in my ongoing PBEM but that can´t be seen as anything else than an enhanced beta test anyway...

Anyway, attack bombers seem not to have been really tested pre release because the one bug I posted in the tech forum is something that really jumps out as soon as you start using the bombers. So I´ve got not that much hope that all this "supress flak" was much tested nor the effect of flak on the bombers and the hit rate of the bombers. Again, not even strafe can be trained (or I´m just too stupid to do it) and that´s what´s used for these bombers (exclusively - hope not - or together with lownav/lowgnd).

[John Lansford]

I'm seeing my attack bombers strafe no matter what altitude they start at.&nbsp; I'm assuming they drop down to 100' and go in with guns blazing, but they're also dropping bombs (just not very accurately, it seems, since they inflict few casualties attacking ground targets).

[crsutton]

As a short turn fix, I suggest that you Allied players turn off the upgrade button on your B25C factory before 1943 comes around. I did so and am able to at least have 20 B25C in production until it is fixed.
&nbsp;
Frankly, I think Allied mediums and fighter bombers are fairly useless in game anyway. They just always get slaughtered. The real problem is that CAP is usually always flying from a higher altitude and low flying fighter bombers (and any escort which will be flying low as well) will just get shot to bits. It is really not worth the expendure. I have had beaufighters for about 8 months now and they have done just about diddly squat. Anti shipping attacks have not produced much either at low levels or at 100 feet. This is a major problem for the Allied players. This also holds true for Japanese bombers and escort as they are just as easily shot up by high CAP.
&nbsp;
As far as attack bombers. What few I have have yet to drop a single bomb in any attack. One or two might straff but the results are anemic. They are pretty useless. The only use I can see for them is in training sqadrons until they are worked on.&nbsp;&nbsp;I generally have straffing skills and low bombing skills at least in the 50s or better&nbsp;but they still don't do anything. I put fighter pilots with low bombing and straffing skills in them but that does not make much difference.
&nbsp;
Right now my only plan is to fill up any medium bomber squadrons I can with heavies.

[Sardaukar]

I have had great success with Beaufighters. They and Marauders are quite resilient too, unlike B-25s, who seem to take more casualties.

[EUBanana]

I quite like the mediums, their better service ratings mean that in areas where you have air superiority or something close to it you can bomb around the clock. And they are acceptable in an air-to-ship role as well.

Hence why I will be sad if I have to go through a year without any medium bombers at all.

Sounds like fixing the B25 factory is something at least.

[EUBanana]

...and I'd expect attack bombers to perform much better anyway, no? Skip bombing galore.

As mentioned, this is pretty much akin to the Japanese losing torpedoes from their Betties. Pretty serious.

[greg_slith]

What bugs me is that I can get 9-30 casualties from half a dozen Ventura's and old B-26's bombing a well fortified LCU from 6k feet EVERYTIME, but raids of 36+ B-25D1's CAN NOT HIT a runway with a single bomb from 100ft. Nor do they seem to be able to hit any a/c on the ground when they strafe. And this against well recon'd targets. It becomes very difficult to build up highly experienced pilots because every rifle in the hex can take pot shots at them. I sure would like to see an option for having attack a/c only attack at 100ft or to act like regular medium bombers. Right now, in my game, I need to close airfields more that sink Maru's...and B-25D1's and-G's don't cut it.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx

What bugs me is that I can get 9-30 casualties from half a dozen Ventura's and old B-26's bombing a well fortified LCU from 6k feet EVERYTIME, but raids of 36+ B-25D1's CAN NOT HIT a runway with a single bomb from 100ft. Nor do they seem to be able to hit any a/c on the ground when they strafe. And this against well recon'd targets. It becomes very difficult to build up highly experienced pilots because every rifle in the hex can take pot shots at them. I sure would like to see an option for having attack a/c only attack at 100ft or to act like regular medium bombers. Right now, in my game, I need to close airfields more that sink Maru's...and B-25D1's and-G's don't cut it.

There's a bug just recently discovered and a fix is pending.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
There's a bug just recently discovered and a fix is pending.

Nuff said. I willl go back to getting hammered by Little Yellow Men With Coke Bottle Glasses[;)]

I never said it ( so many others already have) but I would like to say Awesome to the developement team. I don't play as much as others, but even from my limited experience you guys rock [&o]

[greg_slith]

I was under the impression that the bug that was identified only concerned bombing and strafing at different heights in the same turn. My concern is the total lack of accuracy at any height. If the fix means that a B-25D at 100ft now hits its target (ship, airfield, port, LCU, whatever) with bombs then HUZZAH!
These planes, historically, just chewed up targets. All those .50's and parafrags were devastating. I just don't see it in my game.

[witpqs]

I might have misunderstood, but I thought the bug has the effect that attack bombers go directly to strafing and did not bomb.

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx
These planes, historically, just chewed up targets. All those .50's and parafrags were devastating. I just don't see it in my game.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! The Allies didn't build several thousand specially modified "gunships" to get the kind of pitiful results received in the game. If this nonsense was affecting the Japanese. it would have been fixed a year ago. Since it only affects the Allies, we'll be lucky if it's ever made right. [8|][&:]

[vonTirpitz]

[>:]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx
These planes, historically, just chewed up targets. All those .50's and parafrags were devastating. I just don't see it in my game.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! The Allies didn't build several thousand specially modified "gunships" to get the kind of pitiful results received in the game. If this nonsense was affecting the Japanese. it would have been fixed a year ago. Since it only affects the Allies, we'll be lucky if it's ever made right. [8|][&:]

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx
These planes, historically, just chewed up targets. All those .50's and parafrags were devastating. I just don't see it in my game.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! The Allies didn't build several thousand specially modified "gunships" to get the kind of pitiful results received in the game. If this nonsense was affecting the Japanese. it would have been fixed a year ago. Since it only affects the Allies, we'll be lucky if it's ever made right. [8|][&:]

Poor allies, the stepchild of every ww2 game. [8|]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I have had great success with Beaufighters. They and Marauders are quite resilient too, unlike B-25s, who seem to take more casualties.

but Beaufighters are fighter bombers and Marauders are level bombers. None of them are attack bombers. [&:]