Titan Deisgn Concepts

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:11 pm

Originally posted by ekohippi
IS there any change PPC's would be implemented to the game?? Or some type of Streak Missiles? Small Pulse Lasers would be nice too...

Didn't you notice, PGs *are* PPCs

Streaks do not make much sense in ToS, as the lock system is quite different from BT. You lock into a target "permanently", as opposed to a "crosshair" lock. GMs in WS (H and E) have somewhat of a streak ability, if you put your imagination to work.
SPLs, that's BT. You get an arm's length list of weapons, variants left and right, they all do the same but with small differences. Some become obsolete with time. Fortunately that's not the case with ToS. Direct damage weapons are kept to a minimum. An SPL wouldn't bring anything new to the game, nothing any of the existing close range weapons don't already do.
My opinion of course.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:27 pm

Eko, I was merely *informing* you that titans below max weight -10% are not loaded by the battle module for random games.
And when testing a design, one of the best tests is testing it against itself or a very similar design. That's how you fine tune designs. If the AI can't use it, how do you know if it is good if it is not used against you, a human player?

I don't know where you got the idea about less leg damage, but let me remind you that there's a skill check penalty for crouched titans.
BTW, you can mix armor types in a design. I'm saying this cause your first version was all T (including the head!), and this one is all D. You can probably increase leg armor by switching it to T, since you have available weight and slots are probably maxed. I'm just making observations, as I can't build the titan here and check.

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:16 pm

Well, I don't have any possibilities for multiplayer, so I haven't care to test a mech against human (me) as that works nicely against AI which is my enemy.

And I thought D had the best AP...I know that I could mix them, but as I think D gives the most armor protection and the weight was far from max, I thought I could use D all the way.

Hmmm...didn't ever think PG as PPC.....and for SPM, it'd be cool to have like small laser with firing at VERY rapid speed..but also generating much heat...just thoughts...

As for less leg damage, I've experienced that when you are crouched, the hits go rarely to legs, but more likely to LT CT an RT. Of course they can be called, but random hits seem to avoid legs when crouched. Like twisting torso to right to make the left side take the damage if right is damaged badly.

BTW why was the "wait on time" or something like that disabled during jump? Aren't the mech supposed to be able to hover in air?? This can be tricked over, but I was curious.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Wed Oct 30, 2002 11:55 pm

That's kinda short sighted, but ok, if that's what you feel. WS will have a much better AI BTW.

D does have the best protection, *provided* you have enough slots. When they're in short supply, T may be better. Of course, heat dissipation drops a little. And like I said in my previous post, I only mentioned it cause you used T for the head in the first version, which is very weird. No one uses T in the head

An even faster firing rate than the SL?! Nope, not possible. Larkin said no way some time back, cause it'd clutter the queue.

Right, no hovering in the air. You can fire when hovering, with a penalty, but you can't stay there. Yes, there's a way around it.

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:31 pm

Yeah, I know that T in the head was stupid

It was 2:00 am when I did the first version

I know the way to hover, but if that's not what we are supposed to be able to do, maybe it should be fixed...anyways, the hovering is not that often needed, just when I want to start melee with a DfA (you know, the enemy on the run to the same hex etc...). I just love DfA. **** fun to kill someone with one jump.. and it's a little easier in ToS than it is in any BT game I've played.

When is WS coming? This christmas?? Gotta have it...

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:21 pm

There is no way to fix it, why do you think it hasn't been?
And I know what DfA is, been playing BT for close to 15 yrs

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:40 pm

Originally posted by ekohippi
As for less leg damage, I've experienced that when you are crouched, the hits go rarely to legs, but more likely to LT CT an RT. Of course they can be called, but random hits seem to avoid legs when crouched. Like twisting torso to right to make the left side take the damage if right is damaged badly.

I just confirmed with Larkin, crouch and stand use the same damage table. So it was pure luck

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:03 pm

I'm sure you do know what DfA is...

and yeah, I must have been lucky. It seemed like I never got in the legs when crouched. But wouldn't it be logical??

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:20 pm

Maybe. But that'd mean the head would be hit more often. Not a good thing, especially cause that would not be logical.
And anyways, you already get a defensive bonus when crouched, so I guess in a way it's already factored in.

To be realistic, LOT shouldn't be hit at all, which isn't covered in any of the methods. And called shots to the legs would have to be harder, and to the LOT impossible. Too much work for little gain, Larkin would say

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 10:39 pm

That's true.

Well, the system is good as it is now. But I hope they consider some of these to WS.

Daegil · Post by **Daegil** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:36 am

Decided fit in some of my own...

The Gatling... Well, use it to chop through single opponents,
not very useful in crowd control. Perhaps in larger numbers.
Haven't tried, myself. Once did chop through me anyways...

Titan Name: <Gatling> (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 10 [meter]
Bmt : 19 (63 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.8C/sec.
Jmt : 17 (70 kph) for 53 secs Cost : 156061 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :CyberSys [Engine 3] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Delinit H6 [Heat 6]
Shield :Simson-Light [Shld1] [LT ]
LifeSup.:Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys L [Scan 3] [CT ]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [CBT ]
JumpPort:J.U.W.E.L [Jump 1]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[RA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[RT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy 018 [027mm]
[RT ] (19) Dullaroy 030 [043mm]
[CT ] (19) Dullaroy 027 [039mm]
[CBT ] (13) Dullaroy 019 [028mm]
[LT ] (19) Dullaroy 030 [043mm]
[RA ] (19) Dullaroy 029 [042mm]
[LA ] (19) Dullaroy 029 [042mm]
[LowT] (13) Dullaroy 028 [041mm]
[RL ] (17) Vicenium 039 [065mm]
[LL ] (17) Vicenium 039 [065mm]

Armorindex: 6.49 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 166 [APts]
External: 288 [APts] Max:[071mm]
Total Armor: 454 [APts]

The Fire n' Light. All you can say about it, actually...
At least the comp doesn't like it.

Titan Name: <Fire n' Light> (Heavy Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Durania H1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 129.5t (140t maximum) Height : 15 [meter]
Bmt : 31 (38 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.4C/sec.
Jmt : 12 (100 kph) for 57 secs Cost : 293995 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Triton T6 [Engine 6] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Triton H8 [Heat 8]
D.C.S. :Surko [D.C.S.3] [CBT ]
LifeSup.:B.M.I. [Life 3] [Head]
Scanner :Mark X-S [Scan 6] [RT ]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [LT ]
JumpPort:Mark MJ-I [Jump 6]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[LA ] FLAME THROWER (021) [3]
[RA ] FLAME THROWER (021) [3]
[RT ] FLAME THROWER (021) [3]
[LT ] FLAME THROWER (021) [3]
[Head] PULSE LASER

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (13) Dullaroy 022 [032mm]
[RT ] (25) Dullaroy 032 [047mm]
[CT ] (25) Dullaroy 041 [059mm]
[CBT ] (15) Dullaroy 025 [036mm]
[LT ] (25) Dullaroy 032 [047mm]
[RA ] (23) Dullaroy 040 [058mm]
[LA ] (23) Dullaroy 040 [058mm]
[LowT] (15) Dullaroy 041 [060mm]
[RL ] (21) Dullaroy 051 [074mm]
[LL ] (21) Dullaroy 051 [074mm]

Armorindex: 4.49 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 206 [APts]
External: 375 [APts] Max:[086mm]
Total Armor: 581 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Heavy Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Scanner
Skills : D.C.S

BTW, noticed the leg armor on both mechs... I don't like 'em
feet chopped off... =)

Korgmeister · Post by **Korgmeister** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:53 pm

Not bad designs at all. Looks like you're a man after my own heart.

If you like the Gatling, check out the Bait MkIV. I think you'll find it very interesting. Just as much (if not more) Firepower than the Gatling, but with much more armour.

The Fire and Ice is pretty nice, but I'd say ditch the Pulse Laser and exchange it for a Medium Laser. The better range and better accuracy against moving opponents make it a more reliable backup weapon. Plus, it's lighter too.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:01 pm

heh you and your armor korg you and your armor

Korgmeister · Post by **Korgmeister** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 11:54 am

Speaking of armour, here is the latest revision of the 'Bait' series. Although in all honesty I'm not sure this even deserves to be called a 'Bait' model.

It's now not as much of a walking slab or armour as it is a fast and flexible CC titan. Although no longer as good at soaking up damage as previous Bait models, due to the larger heat reg and reduced armour, it is actually much more potent offensively.

Yes, I know it sounds bizzare but less weapons and more defensive equipment have actually made it a great deal more deadly as a CC titan. This thing regularly furballs with Medium and Heavy Titans and is still standing ready to say "OK, who'se next!"

Of course it rarely survives a whole match due to the way I use it - that is, to have it run straight in and kick arse while the other titans assume better offensive positions and see about moping up the mayhem it leaves in it's path.

If you're going to use it that way, make sure your pilot has a good Survival skill! A good Defensive skill is obviously useful as well, although the shield is mainly there for heat protection purposes.

The Bait MkV generally demands a more skilled pilot than previous models, but once your rookies have survived piloting previous Bait revisions, this is a good titan to graduate them to.

Titan Name: <BaitMkV> (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 10 [meter]
Bmt : 19 (63 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.7C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 150867 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :CyberSys [Engine 3] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Smac Corp. [Heat 5]
Shield :Simson-Light [Shld1] [CBT ]
D.C.S. :Surko [D.C.S.3] [RT ]
LifeSup.:Phillippi [Life 2] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys L [Scan 3] [LT ]
Computer:CyberSys [Comp. 2] [LowT]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] POWER AXE
[LA ] POWER AXE
[RA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy 018 [027mm]
[RT ] (19) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[CT ] (19) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[LT ] (19) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[RL ] (17) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[LL ] (17) Vicenium 033 [055mm]

Armorindex: 6.88 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 166 [APts]
External: 315 [APts] Max:[071mm]
Total Armor: 481 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan
Weapons : Cannon C.C.
Warfare : Defensives Scanner
Skills : D.C.S Medical

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 12:38 am

ya know what id really like to see? a "cruiser" titan with a couple big guns made to strafe other titans could be pretty useful but ive never been able to get it quite right.........mabey i should drop the ac20's eh?

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:07 pm

One of the heavies like the Fog Giant is pretty good for cruising and strafing. 4 AC 12s can deal a lot of damage. Or, if heavy is too big for you, you could make a pretty mean medium with 2-3 AC 12s or so.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:07 am

*hugs his ac20* and leave this behind?

ah well by strafing i mean strafing not sluggishly walking past with a medium or a heavy and more along the lines of ac7/ac4 for range purposes

tdouglas · Post by **tdouglas** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:12 am

I have used the bait stragity as well. I made a mech I call the Professor. Its 70ton and mounts 4MG/4SRM4/2ML and a BC4/scan5 (or 3). This builds the xp for gunnery very well. You must get on top of your opponent. Get a high score in either UGM or Cannons. Lasers are secondary. I have a theory that if your chance to hit is lower you get better xp if you hit. This Titan gives many oppturnities to hit you opponent because of quick reload times. I usually give this to my best rookie, and use the others as bait.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:26 am

Sounds like a pretty good design for the titan. You should post the full sheet.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:57 am

It's not theory, it's a fact

It depends not only on the chance to hit, but also on what you roll. The bigger the difference, the more XP you gain. The formula is in the guide, but I'm not sure it's up to date.