PC Campaigns

[Mad Russian]

One of the main features of PC, that hasn't received a single line of text so far, are the campaigns.

There are 3 kinds of campaigns in PC.

Where each battle has it's own set OOB. All you do is play key battles in a row. I have a series of scenarios like that for CMAK. Where I follow the US 3rd Armored Division across Europe in 1944/45. You fight all the major engagements they fought. In PCO I can put them all in the same campaign. You can also assign key personnel to pick from in each battle if you would like that approach.

There is where you have some key battles interspersed with random battles. So you have a 6 scenario campaign where battles 1/3/5 are all historically major battles and battles 2/4/6 are all randomly generated to represent the other fights that were in between those major fights. You can assign key personnel that are available for each of these battles.

You can also have a completely random campaign. This can also be set up with set OOB's or random ones.

I have 5 campaigns that I'm thinking of putting together.

Barbarossa - where I follow a German Panzer Division through the early stages of the war.

Bagration - where I follow the 5th Panzer Division that arrives fresh from Germany to try to stop the Soviet destruction of Army Group Center.

Debrecen - the last great fluid tank action of the war.

Prokhorvka - the real tank engagements centered around Prokhorovka. Not the mythical huge tank battle but the myriad of smaller meeting engagements.

2nd Guards Mech Corps - to follow this Soviet armored unit from it's inception to the end of the war.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Tophat1815]

Can you have a map of areas,two sides with starting forces and the ability to move on that map and thus create scenarios over multiple turns? The scenario would end when map objectives are achieved though the number of turns to achieve this would be determined by player moves and battle results.CAn player forces carry from scenario to scenario and the players between scenarios buy reinforcements?

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Can you have a map of areas,two sides with starting forces and the ability to move on that map and thus create scenarios over multiple turns? The scenario would end when map objectives are achieved though the number of turns to achieve this would be determined by player moves and battle results.CAn player forces carry from scenario to scenario and the players between scenarios buy reinforcements?

Campaigns are linear for this release. A scenario designer could design a campaign where the victory conditions are such that you could accomplish what I think you described, but the limitation is still that the campaign is linear and not branching.

And yes, the campaign could allow you to carry your forces over from scen to scenario, along with buying both reinforcements and possibly replacements. The campaign system even in PCK is very flexible, but not very well documented as yet.

thanks
Rick

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Can you have a map of areas,two sides with starting forces and the ability to move on that map and thus create scenarios over multiple turns? The scenario would end when map objectives are achieved though the number of turns to achieve this would be determined by player moves and battle results.CAn player forces carry from scenario to scenario and the players between scenarios buy reinforcements?

Campaigns are linear for this release. A scenario designer could design a campaign where the victory conditions are such that you could accomplish what I think you described, but the limitation is still that the campaign is linear and not branching.

And yes, the campaign could allow you to carry your forces over from scen to scenario, along with buying both reinforcements and possibly replacements. The campaign system even in PCK is very flexible, but not very well documented as yet.

thanks
Rick

Basically where the point of failure would be in my poor description of a campaign is the non-linear nature of what I am asking. For players to have choices of moving troops between various sectors,not one set battle after another.

What I am actually looking for is a tactical battle simulator,(which role PCO fulfills),that can carry carry out an open campaign between two players or two teams of players.

Now PCO can allow a player to choose their OOB and meet another player head to head to fight out a scenario.It can then keep track of those players forces.Save the forces at the end of the battle.

Can it allow those saved forces to be placed in another scenario? And after each battle is experience earned by units in the OOB?

[Mobius]

Player made campaigns all have new maps.
There is a 3 scenario northern thrust campaign at Kursk ending with the battle at Ponyri Station.
A 4 scenario southern thrust campaign at Kursk ending with the battle near Prokorovka.

[junk2drive]

Tophat I think what you are hoping for is more complex than what this game is.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812


Basically where the point of failure would be in my poor description of a campaign is the non-linear nature of what I am asking. For players to have choices of moving troops between various sectors,not one set battle after another.

Correct, campaigns in this release do not branch based on outcome. this would be something I'd like to see implemented in a future release.

What I am actually looking for is a tactical battle simulator,(which role PCO fulfills),that can carry carry out an open campaign between two players or two teams of players.

Now PCO can allow a player to choose their OOB and meet another player head to head to fight out a scenario.It can then keep track of those players forces.Save the forces at the end of the battle.

Can it allow those saved forces to be placed in another scenario? And after each battle is experience earned by units in the OOB?

Not directly. the forces and losses would/could be carried over to another battle IN a campaign, but again, it's not a branching campaign. Off the top of my head, I don't know of a way to grab those forces and place them into another battle of your choosing outside of a campaign.

thanks
Rick

[Mad Russian]

This isn't like CMC. It doesn't have an operational layer over the top of a single battle simulator.

What PCO campaigns do is link scenarios from one to the next. The forces you have in one battle scenario can be determinant on what you have as a force in the next one.

However, the battle maps could be linked from actual terrain to a depth. Let's say from Kharkov to Stalingrad. The battles in that campaign could very well have actual terrain maps that are in line from Kharkov to Stalingrad.

What you wouldn't be able to do, which is what I think you're asking, is to go laterally around a specific battle area on an operational overlay. To fight the operational battle using PCO as the tactical battle generator for that campaign.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812


Basically where the point of failure would be in my poor description of a campaign is the non-linear nature of what I am asking. For players to have choices of moving troops between various sectors,not one set battle after another.

Correct, campaigns in this release do not branch based on outcome. this would be something I'd like to see implemented in a future release.

What I am actually looking for is a tactical battle simulator,(which role PCO fulfills),that can carry carry out an open campaign between two players or two teams of players.

Now PCO can allow a player to choose their OOB and meet another player head to head to fight out a scenario.It can then keep track of those players forces.Save the forces at the end of the battle.

Can it allow those saved forces to be placed in another scenario? And after each battle is experience earned by units in the OOB?

Not directly. the forces and losses would/could be carried over to another battle IN a campaign, but again, it's not a branching campaign. Off the top of my head, I don't know of a way to grab those forces and place them into another battle of your choosing outside of a campaign.

thanks
Rick

As long as their is a save file with the forces at the end of a battle and that file can be ported into another scenario its golden.

junk2drive......you are correct,but I don't need PCO to do it all.

PCO....can do maps and quite well at that with a 2km by 2km size its more than sufficient,the fact you can use google-earth and bring in real terrain adds sauce to the goose.

If PCO can handle recording losses after a scenario and porting that file into another scenario its a win.It doesn't have to do anything more.

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

This isn't like CMC. It doesn't have an operational layer over the top of a single battle simulator.

What PCO campaigns do is link scenarios from one to the next. The forces you have in one battle scenario can be determinant on what you have as a force in the next one.

However, the battle maps could be linked from actual terrain to a depth. Let's say from Kharkov to Stalingrad. The battles in that campaign could very well have actual terrain maps that are in line from Kharkov to Stalingrad.

What you wouldn't be able to do, which is what I think you're asking, is to go laterally around a specific battle area on an operational overlay. To fight the operational battle using PCO as the tactical battle generator for that campaign.

Good Hunting.

MR

Bingo! You win the prize because that is exactly what I would like it to do. The fact it cannot,only means I need a work around which is what we have been doing with CM:BB for 7 yrs already.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

As long as their is a save file with the forces at the end of a battle and that file can be ported into another scenario its golden.
.......

If PCO can handle recording losses after a scenario and porting that file into another scenario its a win.It doesn't have to do anything more.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that there is a save file you can import into another battle. There are some guys around that know better than I of course.

sorry,
rick

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

As long as their is a save file with the forces at the end of a battle and that file can be ported into another scenario its golden.
.......

If PCO can handle recording losses after a scenario and porting that file into another scenario its a win.It doesn't have to do anything more.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that there is a save file you can import into another battle. There are some guys around that know better than I of course.

sorry,
rick

That is fine,i also don't want to turn this thread into what PCO cannot do when there are so many things that it can do I certainly don't want to taint the impression of the game.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

As long as their is a save file with the forces at the end of a battle and that file can be ported into another scenario its golden.
.......

If PCO can handle recording losses after a scenario and porting that file into another scenario its a win.It doesn't have to do anything more.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that there is a save file you can import into another battle. There are some guys around that know better than I of course.

sorry,
rick

That is fine,i also don't want to turn this thread into what PCO cannot do when there are so many things that it can do I certainly don't want to taint the impression of the game.

thanks - I agree, and you are right, this game does have lots to offer, and I think that in the future releases there will be even more.

Thanks
rick

[Mad Russian]

PC's campaigns are very much a worthy part of the system already. As we go forward that should only get better.

Good Hunting.

MR

[madorosh]

I think Tophat is asking about functionality for a Meta-Campaign type deal. Being able to edit endgame files would permit destroyed vehicles to be carried over, ditto forces.

The lack of destructible terrain kind of makes the maps themselves a bit beside the point - not being snide here, it's actually a bit of a plus in that regard.

If end-game forces could be saved as a data file and extracted for printing/editing, it would be a great meta-campaign tool.

[Peterk1]

Similar question. Would it be possible to create a scenario programatically? If I understand correctly, you guys are using XML files for a lot of things, so conceivably it would be possible to have those files generated?
I have no idea if I would have the energy to ever try to do such a thing again as I did with CMBB, but it would be nice to know that the door is open to it.

[junk2drive]

I suppose you could but I just looked at an xml and it is so much easier to use the editor.

I guess the scenario editor that we use is the "programatically" "generated" thing that you are talking about.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Peterk1

Similar question. Would it be possible to create a scenario programatically? If I understand correctly, you guys are using XML files for a lot of things, so conceivably it would be possible to have those files generated?
I have no idea if I would have the energy to ever try to do such a thing again as I did with CMBB, but it would be nice to know that the door is open to it.

I'm sure you could Peter, though the save files aren't xml (and for good reason I imagine).

Rick

[Erik Rutins]

Yes, it would definitely be possible - that's basically what the Random Battle Generator does! You could re-use some of the same deployment templates and other presets that it uses if you write your own program.

[Peterk1]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I suppose you could but I just looked at an xml and it is so much easier to use the editor.

I guess the scenario editor that we use is the "programatically" "generated" thing that you are talking about.

No, not really.

The idea (which some CM players are obsessed with, by the way) is to write another program on top of PC which would drive it and generate PC scenarios transparently and behind the scenes. Players shouldn't even know the details of the generated scenarios.

This can be used for several things such as playing a long battle on a map which would be unplayable in a single PC map and also to come up with campaign type games which have different rules than that imposed by the original game (if the original game has a campaign system). You would sort of, conceivably, possibly be able to have a huge battle for all of Stalingrad with many players, in this manner, provided you had some access to the end of game information, preferably including map damage.

In CM, it was never really possible to generate a scenario outside of CM itself unless you were going to have a program to drive the scenario editor by generating phony mouse clicks. Difficult, totally painful and stupid. I still don't understand what exactly they gained by keeping their scenario format proprietary because in the end they never did anything with it themselves. Anyways, that doesn't really belong here.

Thanks for the answer Erik. Sounding really good.