Forest terrain -

[RockinHarry]

I see a lot of nice stuff that one can create elaborate fortification lines or strongpoints from. [8D]

How do these trenches and fortifications work in the game actually? I´ve seen some SS anywhere, showing infantry (figures) adapting nicely to a trench object. Can you set protection factors manually or is this set in the game (generic trench "class" object)?

Pillboxes: Is this sort of fortified house class object that carries a whole squad of infantry? How is squad weapons used from these structures? Is the AI engine able to use these and able to deal with them?

[Mad Russian]

EVERYTHING in PC can be set manually if it pertains to terrain, structures, vehicles, weapons or units. If you make it then it can be put into the game.

Harry, you're the fortifications expert. To be truthful with you I've not played with them yet to tell. I don't have any fortifications in any of my scenarios. Fortifications were a pretty rare breed of animal on the Eastern Front, so not much call for them. Not near as much as in the West.

Good Hunting.

MR

[benpark]

The amount of stuff that has been built for this update is really mind blowing when you look at the numbers (if I may toot our own horns). I made the trees and quite a few of the buildings/structures, and it's about a year and a half of model making and file adjusting.

The variety of trees that I have made gives you summer, fall, winter options in about 6-12 trees for each season. This also is rounded out by many varieties of shrubs and hedges.

I have also added new types of buildings that include German and "Middle European" house types. Lots of them.

[RockinHarry]

I didn´t actually mean the Stalin line, Sevastopol or Leningrad fortifications, that include that concrete made pillboxes. I rather mean a few thousands kilometres of elaborate trench lines, including wooden pillboxes, dugouts, shelters and such.[8D] Nogo without it, when speaking of true eastern front combat. Just imagine initial stages of Kursk, or the year long stalements near Leningrad, Volchov, Rshev salient, just to name a few.

Ospreys Fortress series (023 and 062 in particular) gives a whole lot of good info about this topic.

I´d be fine of having at least parts of that included in PCO, even if PC series is more geared towards tank combat.[:)]

[junk2drive]

I just had a multiplayer battle with a new tester. He sent a few Panzers through a village, hoping to get cover from the trees scattered about. He was buttoned up from all the action. 3 of them were taken out by squads in houses using close assault. He should have scouted ahead with troops.

Infantry in PC is not as well animated as a FPS, the mount/unmount routine turns off some people, but PC is not an armour only game.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

.......I rather mean a few thousands kilometres of elaborate trench lines, including wooden pillboxes, dugouts, shelters and such........


I´d be fine of having at least parts of that included in PCO, even if PC series is more geared towards tank combat.[:)]

I know Mobius has used trench fortifications in a number of his scenarios (at least i think they were mobius's). I know I've faced more than a few in the scenarios I've tested.

Oh, and if I understood your question about cover, they are part of a generic "trench" cover, ie, the benefits aren't set differently by the scenario designer.

Thanks
rick

Rick

[Mobius]

The fortifications are pretty generic and represent a form of "heavy" cover for infantry. So are not an armored target. We will have to wait for PC4 for fort types with armored values. We do have one turreted fort that does have an armored value but that is for a specific battle.

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: benpark

The amount of stuff that has been built for this update is really mind blowing when you look at the numbers (if I may toot our own horns). I made the trees and quite a few of the buildings/structures, and it's about a year and a half of model making and file adjusting.

The variety of trees that I have made gives you summer, fall, winter options in about 6-12 trees for each season. This also is rounded out by many varieties of shrubs and hedges.

I have also added new types of buildings that include German and "Middle European" house types. Lots of them.

From what I´ve seen, this is truely beautiful artworks! [8D]

Question: I assume every single (tree) object has its own bounding box, used for LOS and collision tracing?

Assuming you seek to create a really "dense looking" forest, can you create a group of trees (maybe 10 to 20m square), incl. underbrush ect. in your 3D Editor and make just a single bounding box around it, to lessen the burden on the LOS/collision tracing engine? The right place for this single 10-20m size group then would be the interior of a dense forest.

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

.......I rather mean a few thousands kilometres of elaborate trench lines, including wooden pillboxes, dugouts, shelters and such........


I´d be fine of having at least parts of that included in PCO, even if PC series is more geared towards tank combat.[:)]

I know Mobius has used trench fortifications in a number of his scenarios (at least i think they were mobius's). I know I've faced more than a few in the scenarios I've tested.

Oh, and if I understood your question about cover, they are part of a generic "trench" cover, ie, the benefits aren't set differently by the scenario designer.

Thanks
rick

Rick

Thanks, that answered my questions! [:)]

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

The fortifications are pretty generic and represent a form of "heavy" cover for infantry. So are not an armored target. We will have to wait for PC4 for fort types with armored values. We do have one turreted fort that does have an armored value but that is for a specific battle.

Thanks. I´d be fine with that system and it would be a big step forward from what you can do in CMx1.[8D]

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

ORIGINAL: benpark

The amount of stuff that has been built for this update is really mind blowing when you look at the numbers (if I may toot our own horns). I made the trees and quite a few of the buildings/structures, and it's about a year and a half of model making and file adjusting.

The variety of trees that I have made gives you summer, fall, winter options in about 6-12 trees for each season. This also is rounded out by many varieties of shrubs and hedges.

I have also added new types of buildings that include German and "Middle European" house types. Lots of them.

From what I´ve seen, this is truely beautiful artworks! [8D]

Question: I assume every single (tree) object has its own bounding box, used for LOS and collision tracing?

Assuming you seek to create a really "dense looking" forest, can you create a group of trees (maybe 10 to 20m square), incl. underbrush ect. in your 3D Editor and make just a single bounding box around it, to lessen the burden on the LOS/collision tracing engine? The right place for this single 10-20m size group then would be the interior of a dense forest.

Yes you can do that, you can even define a LOD version which will LOD in when the camera is far enough away. Doing it this way will speed up map loading, LOS sim time and FPS. You would have to ensure that no unit could ever *get* over to your dense tree patch (this is easy enough to do in Map Maker) otherwise heavy tanks wouldn't be able to knock over the "trees" or crush the "brush".

It wouldn't even be all that hard to do with Ben's amazing trees, simply group a whole bunch together in max or fragmotion, scale and rotate to taste. Once done this dense tree patch could then be shared with other Map Maker users.

S

[junk2drive]

And Harry, before you ask, there is a gravity button so that your trees stand up straight on a hillside. The hillside with the cow on it. [:D]

Not sure how it would work with a large cluster of trees though.

[Mad Russian]

Here's another shot of forest textures.

Good Hunting.

MR

[RocketMan]

Can you add large rocks in Map Maker? There probably aren't a lot of rocky areas in Russia, unlike where I live in Colorado, but just curious if the feature exists in PCO.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: RocketMan

Can you add large rocks in Map Maker? There probably aren't a lot of rocky areas in Russia, unlike where I live in Colorado, but just curious if the feature exists in PCO.

If I can find it I'll post a shot of the Map I've was working on for the HILL 621 Scenario. (an old SL scen.) If I recall I had some large boulders. The Map Maker has a setting that allows you to specify that a map object is normal to the ground as well as another control to make things vertical to the ground. It also has a "sink" setting so you can place Boiulders and then "sink them some into the slope.

Sometimes it takes a long time to make a map in Map maker -- beause you can easily get wrapped up in doing so MANY things with it! It's hard to stop and say enough!

Thanks
rick

[benpark]

I have added models for rocks. Probably 5-7 variations of them, if I can recall correctly.

There aren't any the size of a tank, but it wouldn't be too hard to do if there was a demand for it. I still have some unfinished work on some other items first, but I'll see about doing large boulders if people want them.

[RocketMan]

ORIGINAL: benpark

I have added models for rocks. Probably 5-7 variations of them, if I can recall correctly.

There aren't any the size of a tank, but it wouldn't be too hard to do if there was a demand for it. I still have some unfinished work on some other items first, but I'll see about doing large boulders if people want them.

That's great benpark. If the gameplay is as good as the graphics you guys will have made a great game!

Do your rocks provide any cover or they just eye candy?

[heinrich55]

Rick,
Oh yes, Hill 621 scenario! What memories. [8D] That was one of my favorites. I hope you can find that map. I'd love to see it.

Are you doing it for a scenario in PCO?

Heinrich55

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: heinrich55

Rick,
Oh yes, Hill 621 scenario! What memories. [8D] That was one of my favorites. I hope you can find that map. I'd love to see it.

Are you doing it for a scenario in PCO?

Heinrich55

I started it quite a while back - but since it's a SL scenario, we can't really include it as part of PCO, so I put it off while I work on things we can include with PCO. Once PCO is released, I plan to put together a SL 'pack" with a few Squad Leader scenarios I've done in this system.

But it will take some work - they were done with a very very early version of MM so I need them update it for PCO using the matest MapMaker version.

thanks
rick

[Mad Russian]

Hill 621 doesn't belong to Squad Leader.

If you make the map using Map Maker and do the research available for the battle now it would look completely different than what was done decades ago. Unless you intend to make an exact copy just to play using PCO as the medium.

PCO actually can be made to look very much like SL/ASL maps. They take me back sometimes when I look at them. Especially the way the buildings look at times.

Good Hunting.

MR