European Theatres of Operations Game 2

[82ndtrooper]

and this is what things look like after the fighting

we noticed an artillery unit in that fortification around Paris and decided to attack it rather than let it take pot shots at us. I am a little concerned about the 4th light div. being in that fortification because its not suited at all for that kind of fighting and hope we can pull it out before it gets decimated.

[82ndtrooper]

and down south the Waffen SS has encircled Marseilles and we hope to take it next turn. The SS is still very inexperienced and we hope it will gain a lot in this campaign as it will need it for the next one.

[82ndtrooper]

and a look at the totals

[82ndtrooper]

and scrolled down
this was the best turn yet for the Luftwaffe all its air-strikes and bombing missions went off without a hitch and scored a lot of kills.

[82ndtrooper]

and a look at the totals. mainly the plane totals

[82ndtrooper]

and last this is a look at the axis card room

[GrumpyMel]

ORIGINAL: 82ndtrooper

its ok about the HQ's grumpy I was able to work around it and ill have a good idea how to work around it in the future.

I have been looking around the map planning my next invasion and I thought I would suggest something.
First for me I see nothing positive in attacking Norway limited production and a huge coastline to defend. I think it needs something special to make it more important. Wasn't there a iron mine there or something that Germany needed ? A nice fat supply center would entice the German player to really consider attacking Norway. Right now Sweden is a much better target, more production and easier to defend.

Also I suggest reducing the cost of subs for Germany from 8000 to 6000 and the same for cargo ships for everybody.

and last a question
I notice you can build Straits with engineers. what are these and how do you use them ?

Straits shouldn't be buildable....that's a mistake. I use them as custom terrain to represent the narrow channels in Denamrk and the Bosporus that should block shipping.

Yeah Norway is questionable....however if the Axis don't hit it, there is a decent chance it may go Allied anyway. I'll look and see if it needs something to juice it up.

I'm probably going to revisit the naval gane in the next version....so I'll look into tweaking the ship costs

[RufusTFirefly]

August 40

This turn was a desaster. And I have to say that I am absolutely not content with the way game mechanics work in case of air fights.

I spotted a German HQ southeast of Paris. To prepare an air raid I first send i a lonely Hurricane, then thre French fighters. Of course the Hurrican and two of the French fighters got lost due to German fighters. Then I sent in a group of 9 bombers and several groups of fighters. Although the ratio was 2:1 in fighters to my advance I lost 11(!) fighters (5 Typhoons, 3 Spitfire Mk V, and 3 Hurricans) while the German side lost only 3 fighters. Some more turns like this and I have to give up. This is not the way I am able to protect Britain from an invasion as it is impossible to win the Battle of Britain when things turn out like this. Or is there anything I am doing wrong?

I admit with 82ndTrooper that Norway should have something thats worth fighting for. Norway was important because of its ports from where iron ore from Sweden could be shipped. The reason for the German invasion was to get access to the ports and use them for German transports of iron ore, as well to cut off the supply of Britain with the Swedish ores. Later in war the Norwegian facility got important that was the only one in Europe that was able to produce heavy water (deuterium oxide) that is used as moderator in the production of uranium for atom bombs.

[82ndtrooper]

first let me say that the Air combat in this scenario is different from any other scenario that i have played and I am not sure why, but i have had to learn a whole new way to conduct air operations.
I will give you some hints that helped me but I first want to say that all those fighters of mine that fought against you had 60 or better experience with most being above 70 XP. I don't know how much of an effect that will have on the combat but that's as high as I have ever been able to get the XP of my fighters in any scenario. I have worked very hard and very carefully to allow these units to gather that much XP.
here are screens of the units you fought against ( I think)

[82ndtrooper]

and

[82ndtrooper]

and
this is the unit that lost at least 2 but I think all 3 planes that I lost
and to be honest I would trade 10 new planes lost to get these three 60 xp planes back its hard to get their XP that high. But I think in this fight it really paid off for me.

[82ndtrooper]

and the last unit I think was in the fight

[82ndtrooper]

I do have 1 other unit that I am not sure was close enough to be a part of it and it was this one.

[82ndtrooper]

as you can see all very experienced units and put them up against your much lesser experienced units and I would think that would have an effect on the outcome. I know your typhoons and spitfire mark V's cant have much more than 20-30 xp, since you recently teched up to them.

Now some hints to help that I have learned the hard way.

first never have your fighters escort bombers on a attack unless you absolutely cant help from doing that. Always send in fighters on recon until the defenders fighters stop intercepting then send in your bombers with a small escort maybe. I have found that escort fighters always take huge losses. If you have been following my air attacks on you with the history tab then you may have noticed that when I send in my bombers they are almost always alone. Now to send in enough fighters on recon you have to build fighter units with 6 or more fighters in them just for this purpose.

another hint
look closely at your Hawker Typhoons and you will see that they have excellent strike abilities in fact they are as good as my Stukas. Build a couple units of just them for ground attacks and you have a unit that is all fighters and capable of nasty ground attacks. then send those units with some spitfires to do air strikes and you will find that they do a lot better and take less losses because they have no bombers to try and defend.

and the other thing i have found is that fighters do much better when defending then attacking (you will be able to defend Britain fine) so I have grown to expect higher loses when i attack and try to make sure I limit those loses. The key is recon missions I feel like that's the way they can attack the best with less losses. I have a couple more tricks i do but i cant tell you everything or you will kick my butt [:D]

so to sum it up
you where up against my best pilots.
you where trying to fight them and defend bombers at the same time. <---- the main reason for the high losses from my experience.
and the HQ unit had some flak to assist my fighters.


here is a look at the battle from my history

I hope this helps bro and maybe grumpy can shed some light on the air combat from a designer point of view.

[krupp_88mm]

it seems to me at least the aircombat is looking alot like WITPAE.. if youll follow the aars their youll know fighters on escort get suicided, im wiling to bet the maker got some inspiration form their, my honest advice escorting fighters should be exempt form aa fire, as their very difficult targets at high altitude and escorting, and if im not mistaken escorting fighters could always leave the bomber box during flak and had extremely low losses to flak, not sure if thats possible or not to do

[82ndtrooper]

turn end of July ,1940

starting positions from the west

[82ndtrooper]

center south

[82ndtrooper]

Paris

[82ndtrooper]

ending positions west

we took Bordeaux and Tours and sank that cargo ship, it had a couple units on it too.

[82ndtrooper]

south
we took Marseilles and the small town to the west of it. all that's left now is Nice.