motorized support-just an encumbrance?

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by crsutton »

Is all support just support or does motorized support give any advantage to the Allies who get quite a lot of it? If not, then motorized support is really just a major liability becuase it is much more difficult to transport.

It seems to me that motorized support would give Allied units better mobilty in certain terrain and certainly help supply flow along roads and tracks. However, this does not seem to be the case. Largely foot bound Japanese infantry units can move as fast and maintain supply flow over the same distances as any Allied infantry unit with loads of motorized support.

Am I missing something here? Are there hidden benefits to motorized support that I don't know about?
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
User avatar
Bullwinkle58
Posts: 11297
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:47 pm

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Is all support just support or does motorized support give any advantage to the Allies who get quite a lot of it? If not, then motorized support is really just a major liability becuase it is much more difficult to transport.

It seems to me that motorized support would give Allied units better mobilty in certain terrain and certainly help supply flow along roads and tracks. However, this does not seem to be the case. Largely foot bound Japanese infantry units can move as fast and maintain supply flow over the same distances as any Allied infantry unit with loads of motorized support.

Am I missing something here? Are there hidden benefits to motorized support that I don't know about?

Isn't it required to get the Strat(road) movement bonus when in Strat mode but on a road and not a railroad?
The Moose
User avatar
Misconduct
Posts: 1851
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:13 am
Location: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Contact:

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Misconduct »

I noticed Allies get strategic movement on roads if it has motorized support, japanese on the other hand have very few units with this kind of mobility.
ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z Intel Core I7 2800k Corsair Hydro Heatsink Corsair Vengeance DD3 24GB EVGA GTX 580 Western Digital 1.5TB Raid 0 Windows 7
User avatar
Bullwinkle58
Posts: 11297
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:47 pm

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I noticed Allies get strategic movement on roads if it has motorized support, japanese on the other hand have very few units with this kind of mobility.
Only some Allies. US, UK, and Oz I think, and not all of them.
The Moose
User avatar
Misconduct
Posts: 1851
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:13 am
Location: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Contact:

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Misconduct »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I noticed Allies get strategic movement on roads if it has motorized support, japanese on the other hand have very few units with this kind of mobility.
Only some Allies. US, UK, and Oz I think, and not all of them.

Yeah, I believe it has to do with the amount of motorized support, let me check the manual.
ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z Intel Core I7 2800k Corsair Hydro Heatsink Corsair Vengeance DD3 24GB EVGA GTX 580 Western Digital 1.5TB Raid 0 Windows 7
User avatar
Charbroiled
Posts: 1181
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:50 pm
Location: Oregon

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Charbroiled »

So far I have found that motorized support are very good at making remnant units all over the place when the motorized support units are left behind during TF loading.[:D]
"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange
User avatar
Bullwinkle58
Posts: 11297
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:47 pm

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

So far I have found that motorized support are very good at making remnant units all over the place when the motorized support units are left behind during TF loading.[:D]

I had the opposite problem. Bought out one of the early US divisions, got it safely to Noumea in Feb. 1942. Minimal escort, as is necessary then. Unloading at the pier, got visited by an IJN raider force of a CA and three DDs. Sank the whole TF. All of the troops were ashore watching, but 203 (!!!) motorized support sank at the pier. It's now mid-August, and they haven't re-built 100% yet.
The Moose
Smeulders
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:13 pm

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Smeulders »

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I noticed Allies get strategic movement on roads if it has motorized support, japanese on the other hand have very few units with this kind of mobility.
Only some Allies. US, UK, and Oz I think, and not all of them.

Yeah, I believe it has to do with the amount of motorized support, let me check the manual.

I always though it had to with nationality. Japan can't, Allies can with the exception of commonwealth forces (Burma and some African units) and China.
The AE-Wiki, help fill it out
User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by crsutton »

Ok, that is good to know that only the Allies with sufficient motorized support get the road bonus. That is a pretty nice deal. But as far as I can see it only happens on primary roads not dirt roads or tracks. Nice for Oz and India but the benefit is fairly limited elsewhere. Would be nice if it meant better supply flow as well.

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

So far I have found that motorized support are very good at making remnant units all over the place when the motorized support units are left behind during TF loading.[:D]

Not a bad thing if you plan on going out and losing your unit....[;)]
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
Smeulders
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:13 pm

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Smeulders »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Ok, that is good to know that only the Allies with sufficient motorized support get the road bonus. That is a pretty nice deal. But as far as I can see it only happens on primary roads not dirt roads or tracks. Nice for Oz and India but the benefit is fairly limited elsewhere. Would be nice if it meant better supply flow as well.


I'm sorry, but this is not correct. As said above, it has to do with nationality, not with motorized support. To test I ordered 2/4th Ind Coy (Aussie unit, 2 support, 0 mot sup) to strat move from Sydney to Canberra (Canberra has no rail links), the order was accepted so unless something happens during turn resolution it is due to nationality.
The AE-Wiki, help fill it out
User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by crsutton »

Thanks, no need to be sorry. That information is helpful.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
User avatar
witpqs
Posts: 26376
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Argleton

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by witpqs »

They've confirmed that motorized support does not influence movement, nor does any other type of device (although obviously static devices prevent movement). The type of LCU influences movement rates. An "infantry" type LCU filled with all tanks will still move like an infantry unit, while an "armor" type unit filled with radar devices will still move like an armor unit.

Hope this is helpful.
User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by crsutton »

It is helpful but that brings me back to my origial question. Is there any benefit from motorized support over plain vanilla support? If not, I am sending 100,000 trucks back stateside for conversion to recreational vehilcles. No sense in the civilian populations suffering in this time of war.[&:]
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
User avatar
witpqs
Posts: 26376
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Argleton

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by witpqs »

As far as I know support squads and motorized support squads provide exactly the same benefits. Motorized support squads are (as you no doubt have found out!) more difficult to move around. They put in the motorized support squads because they were there IRL. We did ask for accuracy! I suppose you could always make a mod where motorized support was basically a clone of support so you wouldn't have to change all the LCU that have MS.
User avatar
Bullwinkle58
Posts: 11297
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:47 pm

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Ok, that is good to know that only the Allies with sufficient motorized support get the road bonus. That is a pretty nice deal. But as far as I can see it only happens on primary roads not dirt roads or tracks. Nice for Oz and India but the benefit is fairly limited elsewhere. Would be nice if it meant better supply flow as well.


I'm sorry, but this is not correct. As said above, it has to do with nationality, not with motorized support. To test I ordered 2/4th Ind Coy (Aussie unit, 2 support, 0 mot sup) to strat move from Sydney to Canberra (Canberra has no rail links), the order was accepted so unless something happens during turn resolution it is due to nationality.

I don't think this is correct. I'd modify my original post to agree with witpqs. It's not nationality, it's road type. I got an Indian infantry unit to move in NE India on primary roads in Strat mode (+RD bonus tag.) You can move to Canberra because it's connected by primary (gray) road. You can't get anything, of any nationality, to move in Strat mode on yellow, secondary roads, even in Oz. As witpqs says, motorized support seems to have nothing to do with it, which surprised me. But I got engineers, arty, and infantry all to go to RD+ strat mode on primary roads. It happens so infrequently in India that a destination isn't on a rail line or gray road that I had never noticed the lack of nationality barriers.
The Moose
User avatar
noguaranteeofsanity
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:28 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by noguaranteeofsanity »

Road movement is definitely limited by nationality. See page 185 of the manual, which says "The Allies can utilize Strategic OpMode on rail lines and Main Roads. The Japanese are limited to using Strategic OpMode on rail lines."

However, according to another thread (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2470587) the Russians and Chinese cannot utilise strategic road movement either, the reason being that excess transport vehicles were not available in those nations. Although also seems it is limited to certain areas as well, eg Australia and the US, which might explain the Chinese and Russians, but it didn't come up with a definitive answer as to where.
User avatar
VSWG
Posts: 3217
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Germany

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by VSWG »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

It's not nationality, it's road type.
It's both. Some nationalities can use strat move on major (grey) roads.
Image
User avatar
witpqs
Posts: 26376
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Argleton

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by witpqs »

My post was commenting only on the query regarding motorized support affecting movement rates.
User avatar
witpqs
Posts: 26376
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Argleton

RE: motorized support-just an encumbrance?

Post by witpqs »

Look at this table from the manual. What I mean is that only the unit type determines which column is used, not the devices inside the LCU.



Image
Attachments
TerrainChart.jpg
TerrainChart.jpg (72.8 KiB) Viewed 527 times
Post Reply

Return to “War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition”