motorized support-just an encumbrance?

[spence]

Allied units had more teeth than tail than a japanese unit which makes them bulkier to transport especially units returning from the ME or set up to fight a European or Desert War.

I recognize that there was a typo here and that what was meant was that the IJA had more gun carrying guys than an Allied unit of the same size.

BUT, IRL the IJA also was on the verge of running out of ammunition at the conclusion of the Battle of Singapore and very nearly was forced to call off their assault. They had ports and roads but were unable to sustain a typical (read European) scale of combat. They had no way at all to invade India in 1944 without relying on capturing "British" stocks. They got creamed by the Russians when they tried a "stand-up" fight with them. Their logistics systems/units were only partially able to allow them to beat up on the even more poorly supplied Chinese. Seems to me that if they did not win in the "first rush" then they were $crewed to the rail.

Like I mentioned before the (Western) Allied generals were able to substitute bullets/shells for soldiers and the reason for that was that they could get the bullets/shells to the fight in their trucks a lot more efficiently than the Japanese/Axis.

But the only supply effect modeled in AE seems to be that it's harder to get all those trucks onto the beach.

[Andy Mac]

Not really the scale of organic support for Japanese LCU's is lower than a typical western allied unit so they are far more dependent on base forces etc etc also a typical US Squad especially has waaaaay more firepower per man than a Japanese one and even CW squads man for man are better.
 
Japanese units have a lot of advantages in the early going - they are experienced, battle ready predominantly Infantry Armies light on support weapons organic to units
 
Allied Units tend to be heavy with integral support weapons which makes them tricky opponents for japanese units - just try taking Singapore if the allies get 11th Indian, 9th Indian and 18th British in there with enough supplies and replacements and back on balance with some xp and prep
 
Japanese need to really exploit the early advantages they ghave as they are fleeting
 
Over time as allied squad firepower increases the divisions shed heavy equipment to make themselves lighter.
 
 
The disparity only increases over time as squads get better and newer guns come into play.
 
By 44 a full strength Indian Army Div is more than a match for a Japanese Div and a USMC Div is waaaay superior because of the firepower of its individual squads.
 
 

[LoBaron]

Think of it the other way. Motorized support uses cargo space instead of troops space.
Saves precious troop space for those guys with guns.

So I tend to see it as an advantage and not a disadvantage...

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: spence
But the only supply effect modeled in AE seems to be that it's harder to get all those trucks onto the beach.

Well ... not quite ... MotSup is advantage = Allies in several ways.
Allied units have total support at 90 – 95% of requirements: Japanese units have total support at 75 – 80% of requirements; advantage = Allies.
This is possible because the raw LC of MotSup is less than the raw LC of Sup (talking about DaBabes, here, stock might be different) so 100 MotSup squads will have fewer troops than 100 Sup squads, so one can have 125 MotSup squads at the same troop count as 100 Sup squads (think in terms of relative division sizes, atoll and small island stacking constraints, etc); advantage = Allies.
Even though MotSup has a lower raw LC, it loads in cargo at 3x, so it takes more room and therefore more ships. Since a US Div required about 20-25% more lift than an equivalent J Div, MotSup allows this to be accomplished while keeping the US Div troop count “lower” than the equivalent J Div troop count. And on, and on.

MotSup is very important to the scenario designer in tailoring a unit to have adequate/inadequate support; higher/lower manpower counts; higher/lower shipping requirements. Allows much higher integral support levels for an Allied unit.

[bigred]

+1

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

So far I have found that motorized support are very good at making remnant units all over the place when the motorized support units are left behind during TF loading.[:D]

Never know when a remnant will be needed. I suspect when USN gets the LSTs then the mot support will become more easily available for amphib operations. But not sure as I just entered 43 in one game. I noted as I loaded 1st marines the motorized support would not load on the amphib TF. I will try again after some LSTs get into position.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Not really the scale of organic support for Japanese LCU's is lower than a typical western allied unit so they are far more dependent on base forces etc etc also a typical US Squad especially has waaaaay more firepower per man than a Japanese one and even CW squads man for man are better.

Japanese units have a lot of advantages in the early going - they are experienced, battle ready predominantly Infantry Armies light on support weapons organic to units

Allied Units tend to be heavy with integral support weapons which makes them tricky opponents for japanese units - just try taking Singapore if the allies get 11th Indian, 9th Indian and 18th British in there with enough supplies and replacements and back on balance with some xp and prep

Japanese need to really exploit the early advantages they ghave as they are fleeting

Over time as allied squad firepower increases the divisions shed heavy equipment to make themselves lighter.


The disparity only increases over time as squads get better and newer guns come into play.

By 44 a full strength Indian Army Div is more than a match for a Japanese Div and a USMC Div is waaaay superior because of the firepower of its individual squads.

Yes, just go look at the firepower boost Allied squads get when they tranform from 42 to 43 type squads. Both American and Commonwealth squad get major boost in inherent anti tank capability. Not to mention better AT guns. You are not going to see Japanese tank units having much of an impact once these squads upgrade. In fact they seem to become quite impotent.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: bigred

+1

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

So far I have found that motorized support are very good at making remnant units all over the place when the motorized support units are left behind during TF loading.[:D]

Never know when a remnant will be needed. I suspect when USN gets the LSTs then the mot support will become more easily available for amphib operations. But not sure as I just entered 43 in one game. I noted as I loaded 1st marines the motorized support would not load on the amphib TF. I will try again after some LSTs get into position.

you will really be pleased about APA and LST. In mid 43 you can throw three divs plus support troops onto a hostile beach in one day with a 100 ship TF (of which 85 max are transports). You will also have unloaded some 40-50000 supplies in that day. [:D] all in all, it sounds a bit too much for me though.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: bigred

+1

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

So far I have found that motorized support are very good at making remnant units all over the place when the motorized support units are left behind during TF loading.[:D]

Never know when a remnant will be needed. I suspect when USN gets the LSTs then the mot support will become more easily available for amphib operations. But not sure as I just entered 43 in one game. I noted as I loaded 1st marines the motorized support would not load on the amphib TF. I will try again after some LSTs get into position.

you will really be pleased about APA and LST. In mid 43 you can throw three divs plus support troops onto a hostile beach in one day with a 100 ship TF (of which 85 max are transports). You will also have unloaded some 40-50000 supplies in that day. [:D] all in all, it sounds a bit too much for me though.

Thanks Castor, interesting.

[stuman]

you will really be pleased about APA and LST. In mid 43 you can throw three divs plus support troops onto a hostile beach in one day with a 100 ship TF (of which 85 max are transports). You will also have unloaded some 40-50000 supplies in that day. all in all, it sounds a bit too much for me though.

It's only too much when I am playing the Japanese [;)]