cap_and_gown(j) v witpqs(a) - no witpqs

[veji1]

Wow... This seems to mean something like overall 4CVs sunk, 2CVLs, something like 5 CVEs at least plus a couple of BBs potentially...

What are your plane losses... Are all your bullet spent this time ?

[CapAndGown]

Air losses

[CapAndGown]

Japanese Cripples

[CapAndGown]

Victory Points increased by 2609, of which at least 614 are due to allied air losses and 10 due to base expansion, leaving 1985 for ships.

Ships reported to be sunk:

[veji1]

This is a japanese wet dream... Wow.. I am so eating humble pie for my previous comments..

[krupp_88mm]

BB Massachusetts, Bomb hits 4
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Washington, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Colorado, Torpedo hits 4
BB Alabama, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3
BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage magazines flooded [/b]
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk [/b]
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires ammo storage explosion [/b]
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk [/b]
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage magazines flooded[/b]
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage [/b]
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Essex, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CV Pago Pago, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Cowpens, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage ammo storage explosion [/b]
CVL Independence, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage ammo storage explosion [/b]
CVL Belleau Wood, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage [/b]
CVE Nassau, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk[/b]
CVE Natoma Bay, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Altamaha, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage[/b]
CVE Corregidor, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage[/b]
CVE Santee, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Anzio, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage [/b]
CVE Breton, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage (sunk sound)[/b]
CVE Copahee, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage (sunk sound)[/b]
CL St. Louis, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Richmond, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Cleveland, Bomb hits 1
CL Trenton, Shell hits 8
CL Detroit, Shell hits 8, on fire
DD Meade, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Kalk, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DD Lansdowne, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Duncan, Shell hits 6, on fire
DD Renshaw, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Radford, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Kimberly, Shell hits 6
DD Kidd, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Beale, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage[/b]
DD Converse, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Claxton, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage [/b]
DD Daly, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bennett, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage[/b]
APA Henderson, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APA U.S. Grant, Bomb hits 2, on fire
APA Hunter Liggett, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AKA Alcyon, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage[/b]
AKA Jupiter, Torpedo hits 1

total for the 2 days

[castor troy]

200 Allied bombers for 11 bomb hits. lol

How many reached your fleet?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Japanese Cripples

sinking most of the USN for a probable single CVL lost. Well done indeed! [&o]

[janh]

Wow, unbelievable!  The chances that now unfold before you are really a Japanese dream!

What is the complete listing of sunk CV/CVL/CVE, BB/CA/CL now?  What cripples and intacts are left, what CV have you left?
If I were you, I would be most aggressive now and try to hunt down all CVx cripples there are.   This is the one best chance a Japanese player will ever get to win the war.  Get them all, then go after the battlewagons and the transports!  Even if you'll loose a few CV yourself!  Fantastic!

[veji1]

I think the problem for that is the amount of planes, torpedoes and sorties he has left... With quite a few of his CVs now a bit damage, they are a lot more vulnerable to LBA, subs, whatever lucky hit the allies get. Having sunk probably 4 or 5 CVs, and lots of other valuable targets, I am not sure that risking losing 3 or 4 of his CVs (jap CVs die very quickly!) for an extra one or two is worth it. Let the SS and LBA finish the job that is finishable...

Anyway. When you have time and this battle finishes, I would love to see a strategic update as to the impact this is likely to have in the game.

[krupp_88mm]

i think he has enough intact carriers and surface forces and subs ect to at least maintain station and try to get a few cripples like he was originally planning to do this turn i wouldn't back down, the success he had today in carrier vs carrier engagement will only be magnified tomorrow since the allies list close to 600 carrier planes 300 of them on the decks of US carriers, not to mention almost every us carrier is already damaged as well as the BBs

[janh]

Indeed, I think I would be very bold now (not only because it is just a game, and you can make WITP-AE history now).  Total sunk carrier for sure are 2, plus 3 CVE and 2 CVL, right?  The rest, except Pago Pago (is there Lex II and Sara II missing in your list Krupp?), are at least heavy damage and/or heavy fires -- means 7CV, 3CVL and 5 CVE afloat in some state .  Plus all nine battlewagons are substantially mauled, but floating.

I think it would be utmost important to sink those 7 CV now, else, in 6 months, everything will be back to normal and the 2 sunk CV be long replaced by the USN.  If you can bag those 15 crippled CVx, then the you have made a difference.  Even at the cost or 2-3 own CV.  Until the US can again put together a fleet of 6 CV, against at least as many of yours, would be later 1944 or 1945.  That would be the end.  I think it imperative that the tactical victory must be exploited into a real victory, and those 7CV, at least, be sunk.  Else, it is like Lee in the CW, or the Germans in the East, scoring tactical victory after victory, but entirely unable to follow them up. 

Maybe one should position KB now somewhere in the triangle Pearl, Johnston, West Coast, and intercept cripples there.  And else send all BB, CL and CA to hunt cripples in the area of Kusaie.  Loosing a BB or CA or two to LBA in return for those cripples would be a real cheap price.

[TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum]

If I may offer some advice:

"You're all clear kid, now let's blow this thing and go home!"

[:D]

[Johraiken]

What a blow!
[&o]

I'd say go for it. Time to deliver the coup-de-grace. As others have mentioned, his carrier-based airpower is severely weakened, but then again, I don't know how much planes, torps and fuel you have left.

[Mike Solli]

I'd recommend pushing forward to kill cripples cautiously.  There's no reason to lose any ships since you've done so well so far.  Of course, it's all dependent on how many planes and sorties you have remaining.  Also, there's ship fuel and your estimate of how much air power your opponent has remaining as well.

[veji1]

I suppose I am being too conservative... How long before Ponape gets up and running so that you don't end up trapped in a triangle of death ? Give him one day to take it, say in 2 days it will be able to bomb you. Tough choices... I don't know, allied LBA (B25s, heavies, SBDs, etc...) can be very deadly against a fatigued KB with quite a few damaged CVs, that plus subs everywhere could get real nasty easily.

[TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: veji1

I suppose I am being too conservative... How long before Ponape gets up and running so that you don't end up trapped in a triangle of death ? Give him one day to take it, say in 2 days it will be able to bomb you. Tough choices... I don't know, allied LBA (B25s, heavies, SBDs, etc...) can be very deadly against a fatigued KB with quite a few damaged CVs, that plus subs everywhere could get real nasty easily.

Agreed.

I think you've done your damage, it's time to start a tactical withdrawal and planning to retake Ponape at a later time.

Bonus points if you can evacuate your damaged CVs without further loss, and still somehow manage to maneuver your undamaged CVs into a position to inflict further damage to the Allies while at the same time also withdrawing them.

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

200 Allied bombers for 11 bomb hits. lol

How many reached your fleet?

I believe ~20 TBD and ~80-90 SBD made it through the CAP.

[Chickenboy]

I'd give you my opinion about what to do, but it's very clear that you don't need it! Nice shootin' Tex. [8D]

Interested in seeing how this pans out over time.

[CapAndGown]

Day 1 Damage
BB Massachusetts, Bomb hits 1
BB Washington
BB Alabama, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 5, on fire
BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage magazines flooded
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires ammo storage explosion
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage magazines flooded
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Pago Pago
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CV Essex, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CVL Cowpens, Bomb hits 7 heavy fires, heavy damage ammo storage explosion
CVL Independence, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage ammo storage explosion
CVL Belleau Wood, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Breton, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage - night sub action
CVE Copahee, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
CL St. Louis, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
CL Santa Fe
CL Mobile
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Braine
DD Chevalier
DD Boyd
DD Conway
DD Converse, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Bradford
DD Claxton, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Brownson
DD Daly, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bennett, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Bache
DD Ammen
DD Beale
DD Anthony
DD Abbot
DD Fletcher

Day 2 Damage
BB Massachusetts, Bomb hits 4
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Indiana, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Washington, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3
BB Colorado, Torpedo hits 4
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Pago Pago, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2
CV Essex, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CV Google
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Corregidor, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Anzio, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Santee, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Natoma Bay, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Altamaha, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Nassau, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Trenton, Shell hits 8
CL Detroit, Shell hits 8, on fire
CL Montpelier
CL Denver
CL Columbia
CL Cleveland, Bomb hits 1
CL Richmond, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CLAA San Diego
CLAA San Juan
CLAA Atlanta
CLAA Juneau
DD Beale, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Bache
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Aulick
DD Meade, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Kalk, Shell hits 4, heavy fires
DD Lansdowne, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Duncan, Shell hits 6, on fire
DD Renshaw, Shell hits 7, on fire
DD Radford, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Kimberly, Shell hits 6
DD Kidd, Shell hits 13, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Welles, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DE Rathburne, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DE Kennison
AKA Jupiter, Torpedo hits 1
AKA Betelgeuse, Shell hits 4
AKA Alcyon, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
APA Henderson, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APA U.S. Grant, Bomb hits 2, on fire
APA Hunter Liggett, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Combined Damage from Day 1 and 2 for BBs and CVs (CVL/E assumed to be sunk)
Ships in bold were identified yesterday in my intelligence assessment as being put out of action and either did not show up today or were attacked and, presumably, sunk today.
BB Massachusetts, Bomb hits 5
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
BB Washington, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Alabama, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Indiana, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage magazines flooded
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3
BB Colorado, Torpedo hits 4
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires ammo storage explosion
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage, and is sunk
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage magazines flooded
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Essex, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Pago Pago, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2
CV Google

Other items of note:

In the morning phase we identified 190 Hellcats providing CAP or escort, close to our estimate of 200.

In the afternoon phase we identified 81 Hellcats providing CAP.

In the morning phase, the allies attacked our fleet with 144 carrier borne SBD, and 105 carrier borne TBD.

In the afternoon phase, the allies were only able to muster 18 TBD. These were probably flying off the Altamaha and Nassau.

Conclusions: At most the allies have 4 usable CV and no CVE/L left. More likely, they only have one or two operational CV left. Allied carrier air strength has been destroyed.

More on the condition of the KB in a while. First approximation: fighter strength = 290 operational, dive bombers = 141 operational, torpedo bombers = 75 operational, though the number of torpedoes left is probably close to 0.