IJ production mistakes

[Mike Solli]

Ok, Medan is (assuming no change in the mod) 210 oil and 200 refineries.  No real change in the daily oil intake, but fuel will increase by 1800 per day.  Rangoon and points north give you 300 more oil and 300 refineries.  Java gives a max of 225 oil and 200 refineries.  Not sure how much of that you have so far.  Did you take much oil facility damage so far?

[bigred]

Earlier vonTirpitz(good eyeballs) told me I had a problem w/ not enough HA32 engines. So I begin my baby steps. First I have stopped production of the Betty. This has helped.
So w/o betty production this is kind of a break even situation.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: bigred

I hope your opponent isn't reading this BTW. Damien

Im sure Jean(DirtyHarry) will and that is ok by me. I decided I need help w/ production so I decided to "open up" for the world to see. This discussion should make us all better players next time.

Another observation is that to really understand the IJ production issues you have to play the japs. Reading about this will not help you(I mean in terms of understanding production) if you only play the allies.

Below is a SP of an increase in mavis production from 6 units to 12 units per month. I figured to be careful w/ the increase because it takes 4x HA35 engines. So this is an extra 24 engines per month used by the mavis.

[bigred]

Djordje seems to have the naval LBA figured out. I like his proposal and will begin planning to execute this task.

41/12 - producing G4M1, G3M2 stopped but factory not converted, waiting for 42/5
42/5 - converting G3M2 to G3M3 (should happen automatically, you can do it manually once May starts for no cost) and starting its production, stopping G4M1
44/1 - stopping G3M3 and converting those factories to something else, starting G4M2 production

Concerning army LBA intend to study 3 types of ground support planes. sHORT RANGE gs, MEDIUM gs AND LONG RANGE gs.
1. Close single engine air support from nearby 2size AFields. Seems the KI51 SONJA is the short range plane of the future, but the old ANN has a better range and 2x bomb load. The good thing about the Sonja is the upgrade comes w/ level 1 armor in 11/43.
So next I wondered how many close ground suport SQNs I have.
Ann=5 Load 950 service 1 range 6 engine ha5 builds-0
Mary=3 load 950 service 2 range 5 engine- early kawasaki builds=0
Sonja=8 load 450 service 2 range 4 engine ha31 builds=30

The Ann wins out. Production wise speaking, untill 11/43 I will duel track the Ann/Sonja. My target for Ann Production is 30 per month. I will restart the HA 5 engine production when the Ann starts to arrive.

Supply cost. Off the top of my head(i do stand to be corrected)
to change a factory cost:
1000x supply per each point
10x HI
10x resources
or
30x1000supply=30000
10hi x30=300
10man x30=300
The next question is "what factory do I want to convert to the Ann?"

[bigred]

I will use the E14y1glen factory at Nagoya and convert it to Ann production. I will also change the Ki27 factory at Meabasi to Oscars and increase Oscar production from 60 to 95.

But what about the loss of the Glen as my sub scout. Earlier in these post the comments indicate a bad future for the submarine arm of the IJN.

[bigred]

My next concern is the definition of meduim and long range LBA. Japan army has no long range planes untill 44 when it probably does not need it as the allies willbe coming to me. I have noted the differences between the sally and the Lilly.

For purposes of this discussion the Lilly will become a low level medium attack DB and the Sally/Hellen will become the higher altitude level bomber.

The standout feature of the Sally is a 2200lb load.

The stand out feature of the advanced Lilly is a DB capability plus a +1 armor rating,but the load is 1100lb.

The next level bomber in the pipe is the Ki49. Better range, load 1700 and upgrades to +1 armor in second adition plus a load increase to 2200lbs.

So the plan for me is to replace the Sally w/ the Ki49 Hellen over time. I would also like to use the Lilly as a land based DB into 43. Might come in handy in CBI.
Sally Sqns=11
Lilly Sqns= 8

The first upgrade of the lilly has started its run (w +1 armor, the first upgraded sqn is on the way to Hawaii for combat test!!!)so I will look to see if all the factories converted to Lilly.

Also the first Ki49s are in the pool. But no need yet to replace the Sally. If my forward deployed LBA had been taking losses then I could see a need to increase frame and engine production NOW. But I do not feel a need for more army air frames at this time.

But from this SP it looks like the Ki49 needs more than 10 engines a month especially since it uses 2 engines. So I need to increase the Ha34 from 10 to about 28 engines per month to match the 14 frames built. On the other hand I realy dont want to utilize the Ki49-Ia in my units. So I may wait until the IIa appears to gear up engine production.
I do ask for comments on this issue.

[bigred]

I recall as I started playing japan the planes where all undefined to me. As Time goes by I really start to feel the strenghts and weaknesses of each type. With study it gets easier to remember the differentials. Alsways seemed easy to remember what the allied planes do. Probably because as a child I used to build models of the b17, b24 and the b25. I dont recall seeing Zero model kits on the shelf, but plenty of Bf-109s and Fw190s

Another aspect of the Ha34 is that it later powers the Tojo Fighter. I may need to consider this issue also. The Tojo does not impress me as Oscar is in the production line. Wonder what the later versions will look like?

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: bigred

But from this SP it looks like the Ki49 needs more than 10 engines a month especially since it uses 2 engines. So I need to increase the Ha34 from 10 to about 28 engines per month to match the 14 frames built. On the other hand I really don't want to utilize the Ki49-Ia in my units. So I may wait until the IIa appears to gear up engine production.
I do ask for comments on this issue.

OK, if you are not going to use this for your groups then plan for the future. Here's what I'd do (even though I'd have planned it differently). Increase your current ki-49Ia production to 30 but turn off production just have them repairing. Once they have fully repaired change them to the IIa and turn production back on. This will result in 30 R&D facilities on-line straight away. Now there is a very small chance you might get the IIa a little early. I'd have set this up at the beginning, so that as soon as the 30(+)*Ia were fully repaired, I'd move them for R&D. You need them fully repaired for them to produce R&D points.

As for the engines; as I said in my post detailing all the engine production (I'm glad you are looking at it now)... you need to look into the future and see what numbers and what types of planes you'll be producing and start gearing them up now. Here I'd be looking at at least 30 IIa's a month, no Tojo's (that's your call); so my engines need to be 60/mth.

[bigred]

On down the road it looks like the Oscar or the Tony will be the fighter of choice. Tojo does not get armor until 44. But the Tojo can shoot down more planes than the Oscar because it has 4 guns instead of two on the Oscar. Bad thing about the Tony is the service rating. What to do. I need to find a fighter that can shoot down a b17 but does not have to deal w/ allied fighters(good luck). I wonder if the Tojo serves this need until the Tony arrives. So the more cannons the better?

[bigred]

Thanks Damian. So in the big plan for R&D would you suggest all R/D increased to thirty on seleted types?

Increase your current ki-49Ia production to 30 but turn off production just have them repairing. Once they have fully repaired change them to the IIa and turn production back on. This will result in 30 R&D facilities on-line straight away. Now there is a very small chance you might get the IIa a little early. I'd have set this up at the beginning, so that as soon as the 30(+)*Ia were fully repaired, I'd move them for R&D. You need them fully repaired for them to produce R&D points.

Why is there one sqn of Tojo's at the beginning of the game? Also the B17s out of Darwin have been pests so I think I will try the Tojo against them, see if I can increase b17 damage.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: bigred

On down the road it looks like the Oscar or the Tony will be the fighter of choice. Tojo does not get armor until 44. But the Tojo can shoot down more planes than the Oscar because it has 4 guns instead of two on the Oscar. Bad thing about the Tony is the service rating. What to do. I need to find a fighter that can shoot down a b17 but does not have to deal w/ allied fighters(good luck). I wonder if the Tojo serves this need until the Tony arrives. So the more cannons the better?

Ahh ... the ongoing Tojo V Tony debate. This has been written about since the dawn of WITP[8D]

Both early Tony and Tojo are fairly bad. Yes more guns are better, but essentially to kill B17's you need cannons not guns (although it's better than throwing rocks)

The IIb Tojo (43/7) is the earliest model with this compared to Tony Ic (43/9). The big thing here is service rating. Tony with a 3 service rating is going to be bad unless you have great support and keep the maintenance down through rotation etc. I'm no expert on these cause I've not played that far along; but I'd do a test (sandbox) and find out what I think before I chose. Only one is needed IMO. I'm sure others will disagree [;)]

Still by the time you get good Tojo's / Tony's (44/3) there's the Frank; and that must be a sweeter ride.

ORIGINAL: bigred

Why is there one sqn of Tojo's at the beginning of the game?

Always has been, seen as an R&D sqdn.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: bigred
Thanks Damian. So in the big plan for R&D would you suggest all R/D increased to thirty on selected types?

Increase your current ki-49Ia production to 30 but turn off production just have them repairing. Once they have fully repaired change them to the IIa and turn production back on. This will result in 30 R&D facilities on-line straight away. Now there is a very small chance you might get the IIa a little early. I'd have set this up at the beginning, so that as soon as the 30(+)*Ia were fully repaired, I'd move them for R&D. You need them fully repaired for them to produce R&D points.

I've tested R&D a bit and max 30 / factory for R&D is optimal. 30 = 30 points/mth; So 3+ months and voila; 100 points and a mth early (This might be too tight with the IIa as I warned before).

I also like to have multiple factories doing this for the planes I want ... aka Frank. And the thing with R&D in AE is that once the factory is repaired; it can be moved along the upgrade path at no cost ... (Makes it easier, but as a purist I preferred witp).

For instance the ki-49Ia factory can be moved to the IIb, fully repaired at no cost now. ie. Ia->IIa->IIb.

[bigred]

OK, if you are not going to use this for your groups then plan for the future. Here's what I'd do (even though I'd have planned it differently). Increase your current ki-49Ia production to 30 but turn off production just have them repairing. Once they have fully repaired change them to the IIa and turn production back on. This will result in 30 R&D facilities on-line straight away. Now there is a very small chance you might get the IIa a little early. I'd have set this up at the beginning, so that as soon as the 30(+)*Ia were fully repaired, I'd move them for R&D. You need them fully repaired for them to produce R&D points.

[n01487477]

Do it again to round up to 30 and make sure you have 10K supplies there for next turn by using the supply req. button (it looks a little low there right now).

It only allows doubling per use. But you can always use it again same turn ...

[edit] You also need to turn off production unless you want to build this plane.

[bigred]

Finally a decision:

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: bigred

But from this SP it looks like the Ki49 needs more than 10 engines a month especially since it uses 2 engines. So I need to increase the Ha34 from 10 to about 28 engines per month to match the 14 frames built. On the other hand I really don't want to utilize the Ki49-Ia in my units. So I may wait until the IIa appears to gear up engine production.
I do ask for comments on this issue.

OK, if you are not going to use this for your groups then plan for the future. Here's what I'd do (even though I'd have planned it differently). Increase your current ki-49Ia production to 30 but turn off production just have them repairing. Once they have fully repaired change them to the IIa and turn production back on. This will result in 30 R&D facilities on-line straight away. Now there is a very small chance you might get the IIa a little early. I'd have set this up at the beginning, so that as soon as the 30(+)*Ia were fully repaired, I'd move them for R&D. You need them fully repaired for them to produce R&D points.

As for the engines; as I said in my post detailing all the engine production (I'm glad you are looking at it now)... you need to look into the future and see what numbers and what types of planes you'll be producing and start gearing them up now. Here I'd be looking at at least 30 IIa's a month, no Tojo's (that's your call); so my engines need to be 60/mth.

chainging the production manually to a plane on the upgrade path won't damage the factories?

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: bigred

But from this SP it looks like the Ki49 needs more than 10 engines a month especially since it uses 2 engines. So I need to increase the Ha34 from 10 to about 28 engines per month to match the 14 frames built. On the other hand I really don't want to utilize the Ki49-Ia in my units. So I may wait until the IIa appears to gear up engine production.
I do ask for comments on this issue.

OK, if you are not going to use this for your groups then plan for the future. Here's what I'd do (even though I'd have planned it differently). Increase your current ki-49Ia production to 30 but turn off production just have them repairing. Once they have fully repaired change them to the IIa and turn production back on. This will result in 30 R&D facilities on-line straight away. Now there is a very small chance you might get the IIa a little early. I'd have set this up at the beginning, so that as soon as the 30(+)*Ia were fully repaired, I'd move them for R&D. You need them fully repaired for them to produce R&D points.

As for the engines; as I said in my post detailing all the engine production (I'm glad you are looking at it now)... you need to look into the future and see what numbers and what types of planes you'll be producing and start gearing them up now. Here I'd be looking at at least 30 IIa's a month, no Tojo's (that's your call); so my engines need to be 60/mth.

chainging the production manually to a plane on the upgrade path won't damage the factories?

Nope ... kind of a flaw in the design of AE-R&D IMO ... check it out for yourself if you want, but I'm sure I'm right.
[edit]Read this thread [;)]
tm.asp?m=2564623&mpage=1&key=&#2566343

[Historiker]

how far does it work? just one ahead, or can you walk through the upgrade path?

[Bliztk]

I plan to use my N1K1-J to shoot down Allied Heavies. Ki-45s will hold the line until Ki-44-IIB arrives. Don´t forget the Ki-45 to shoot them.

Ki-61 is armored. As you will be fighthing defensive battles in early 43, the survival of your pilots it`s the nº 1 priority. Planes can be replaced daily. To train a good pilot you need four months.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

how far does it work? just one ahead, or can you walk through the upgrade path?

Walk through ... makes R&D for distant models more accessible(read easier to get early),as long as they're along the upgrade path and the initial factories are fully repaired.

If stock (not this game Big Red is playing);
I'd R&D A6M3's until repaired then switch these up to A6M5b/c's (not sure the M8 is better) and probably try to get these a year or more early. Similar with the later Oscars and a few other models that come to mind.

Anyway, anything that I want to R&D that is along the upgrade path, I wouldn't start with the plane factory I want to R&D; I'd build the model that is nearest to the current game date (and is maybe already available), then upgrade these fully repaired factories to fully repaired R&D status...

Obviously with start-up models, you still need to R&D that first model before you can continue.