IJ production mistakes

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n01487477
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by n01487477 »

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

I plan to use my N1K1-J to shoot down Allied Heavies. Ki-45s will hold the line until Ki-44-IIB arrives. Don´t forget the Ki-45 to shoot them.

Ki-61 is armored. As you will be fighthing defensive battles in early 43, the survival of your pilots it`s the nº 1 priority. Planes can be replaced daily. To train a good pilot you need four months.
Only problem is that even with PDU, finding enough groups to fill-out with N1K1-J's is tricky. But I agree with your thinking. PDU should have a bit more flexibility IMHO and there has been some problems lately with PDU reported by Viperpool here

Patch will fix some of this, but if I were to create a mod ... PDU would allow the player to do as they wished within the nationality / type of model.
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Historiker
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Historiker »

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: Historiker

how far does it work? just one ahead, or can you walk through the upgrade path?
Walk through ... makes R&D for distant models more accessible(read easier to get early),as long as they're along the upgrade path and the initial factories are fully repaired.

If stock (not this game Big Red is playing);
I'd R&D A6M3's until repaired then switch these up to A6M5b/c's (not sure the M8 is better) and probably try to get these a year or more early. Similar with the later Oscars and a few other models that come to mind.

Anyway, anything that I want to R&D that is along the upgrade path, I wouldn't start with the plane factory I want to R&D; I'd build the model that is nearest to the current game date (and is maybe already available), then upgrade these fully repaired factories to fully repaired R&D status...

Obviously with start-up models, you still need to R&D that first model before you can continue.
Nice!

As this will only have its full effect in late 43 to mid 44, it shouldn't matter that much if the opponent agrees. In Mid 44, the allies should still be superior even if there are 1945 planes on Jap side.
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Bliztk
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Bliztk »


A6M3 opens the path to the land-based IJN fighters. You have to try to upgrade to this plane

The other way is to upgrade from A7M2-J, but that`s a bit late for my tastes [:D]

There are at least two IJN sqds that you can resize into 81 unit plane and divide in three.

With 6 units + the J2M series + the N1K1 you can have a good force of IJN interceptors until the Ki-84 arrives
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Djordje
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Djordje »

ORIGINAL: bigred


Djordje seems to have the naval LBA figured out. I like his proposal and will begin planning to execute this task.
41/12 - producing G4M1, G3M2 stopped but factory not converted, waiting for 42/5
42/5 - converting G3M2 to G3M3 (should happen automatically, you can do it manually once May starts for no cost) and starting its production, stopping G4M1
44/1 - stopping G3M3 and converting those factories to something else, starting G4M2 production

Concerning army LBA intend to study 3 types of ground support planes. sHORT RANGE gs, MEDIUM gs AND LONG RANGE gs.
1. Close single engine air support from nearby 2size AFields. Seems the KI51 SONJA is the short range plane of the future, but the old ANN has a better range and 2x bomb load. The good thing about the Sonja is the upgrade comes w/ level 1 armor in 11/43.
So next I wondered how many close ground suport SQNs I have.
Ann=5 Load 950 service 1 range 6 engine ha5 builds-0
Mary=3 load 950 service 2 range 5 engine- early kawasaki builds=0
Sonja=8 load 450 service 2 range 4 engine ha31 builds=30

The Ann wins out. Production wise speaking, untill 11/43 I will duel track the Ann/Sonja. My target for Ann Production is 30 per month. I will restart the HA 5 engine production when the Ann starts to arrive.

Supply cost. Off the top of my head(i do stand to be corrected)
to change a factory cost:
1000x supply per each point
10x HI
10x resources
or
30x1000supply=30000
10hi x30=300
10man x30=300
The next question is "what factory do I want to convert to the Ann?"

IJA LBA: I recomend that you stop production of single engine light bombers. You should have enough produced for the rare situations where you might want to use them and in general twin engined medium bombers are better for every role.

You should consider this:
41/12 - 42/09: Ki-21-IIa Sally - 60 AC per month, switch to Ki-49-IIa on 42/09
42/04 - 42/09: Ki-49-Ia - 30-60 AC per month, switch to Ki-49-IIa on 42/09
42/09 - 43/09: Ki-49-IIa - 90-120 AC per month. switch to Ki-49-IIb on 43/09
You get first Ki-68-Ia Peggy in 44/01 but by then you should already be experienced and will know what you need.

Even though Ki-49-Ia is inferior to both Ki-21 and Ki-49-IIb it has one useful advantage - it is the only model that gets MAD device in 44/06 which is useful against submarines. Once you start producing IIb model start assigning Ia to IJA squadrons that you will be using on ASW patrol and start training them for ASW missions. Just make sure not to withdraw them all from the map at the same time or your industry will recycle them.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Djordje »

Forgot to mention, one of Ki-27 Nate factories should upgrade to Tojo for free, if you change it to Oscar you will lose that. At least it was the case in old WITP, and I've seen someone mentioned it was still the case in AE. I will test this in my PBEM in a few days.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by d0mbo »

Isn't turning a production factory to an R&D factory (after having fully repaired it) impossible with realistic R&D settings?
 
 
Djordje
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Djordje »

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

Isn't turning a production factory to an R&D factory (after having fully repaired it) impossible with realistic R&D settings?


They were talking about R&D factories only. If there are several models of the plane (Zero, Oscar and many others) you can select one with closest date of arrival, and its R&D factories will repair fastest. Once they are repaired you can switch them to later R&D model and they will not be damaged.

If people overdo this it can even result in later model coming online before the originally former one so my personal HR is to only accelerate closest model.
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bigred
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by bigred »

it is the only model that gets MAD

Please define=MAD
Please define=WAD
---bigred---

IJ Production mistakes--
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: bigred


Djordje seems to have the naval LBA figured out. I like his proposal and will begin planning to execute this task.
41/12 - producing G4M1, G3M2 stopped but factory not converted, waiting for 42/5
42/5 - converting G3M2 to G3M3 (should happen automatically, you can do it manually once May starts for no cost) and starting its production, stopping G4M1
44/1 - stopping G3M3 and converting those factories to something else, starting G4M2 production

Concerning army LBA intend to study 3 types of ground support planes. sHORT RANGE gs, MEDIUM gs AND LONG RANGE gs.
1. Close single engine air support from nearby 2size AFields. Seems the KI51 SONJA is the short range plane of the future, but the old ANN has a better range and 2x bomb load. The good thing about the Sonja is the upgrade comes w/ level 1 armor in 11/43.
So next I wondered how many close ground suport SQNs I have.
Ann=5 Load 950 service 1 range 6 engine ha5 builds-0
Mary=3 load 950 service 2 range 5 engine- early kawasaki builds=0
Sonja=8 load 450 service 2 range 4 engine ha31 builds=30

The Ann wins out. Production wise speaking, untill 11/43 I will duel track the Ann/Sonja. My target for Ann Production is 30 per month. I will restart the HA 5 engine production when the Ann starts to arrive.

Supply cost. Off the top of my head(i do stand to be corrected)
to change a factory cost:
1000x supply per each point
10x HI
10x resources
or
30x1000supply=30000
10hi x30=300
10man x30=300
The next question is "what factory do I want to convert to the Ann?"

Can't argue with you here. I like the Ann as well. Unfortunately, none of the bombers listed here can survive Allied fighters, even with Japanese fighter cover. In my games, they tend to be relegated to backwaters (China or training units) or ASW missions in the SRA. I'd convert the Sonia factory.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: bigred

I will use the E14y1glen factory at Nagoya and convert it to Ann production. I will also change the Ki27 factory at Meabasi to Oscars and increase Oscar production from 60 to 95.

But what about the loss of the Glen as my sub scout. Earlier in these post the comments indicate a bad future for the submarine arm of the IJN.

I wouldn't convert the Glen factory. You get a lot of Glen carrying subs. You're going to need them. Granted this factory is off quite a bit, but if you keep tabs on your engine and airframe production, most of them will be turned off and on repeatedly throughout the game.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: bigred

I will use the E14y1glen factory at Nagoya and convert it to Ann production. I will also change the Ki27 factory at Meabasi to Oscars and increase Oscar production from 60 to 95.

But what about the loss of the Glen as my sub scout. Earlier in these post the comments indicate a bad future for the submarine arm of the IJN.

Another thing to consider. To increase production of something, you don't necessarily have to convert a factory. You can increase the size of an existing factory. You don't have to double it either. Go to the industry screen and click on the factory in question. On the upper right portion of the screen, you can increase the factory by any number you want. I often will increase something by just a few at a time this way.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: bigred

My next concern is the definition of meduim and long range LBA. Japan army has no long range planes untill 44 when it probably does not need it as the allies willbe coming to me. I have noted the differences between the sally and the Lilly.

For purposes of this discussion the Lilly will become a low level medium attack DB and the Sally/Hellen will become the higher altitude level bomber.

The standout feature of the Sally is a 2200lb load.

The stand out feature of the advanced Lilly is a DB capability plus a +1 armor rating,but the load is 1100lb.

The next level bomber in the pipe is the Ki49. Better range, load 1700 and upgrades to +1 armor in second adition plus a load increase to 2200lbs.

So the plan for me is to replace the Sally w/ the Ki49 Hellen over time. I would also like to use the Lilly as a land based DB into 43. Might come in handy in CBI.
Sally Sqns=11
Lilly Sqns= 8

The first upgrade of the lilly has started its run (w +1 armor, the first upgraded sqn is on the way to Hawaii for combat test!!!)so I will look to see if all the factories converted to Lilly.

Also the first Ki49s are in the pool. But no need yet to replace the Sally. If my forward deployed LBA had been taking losses then I could see a need to increase frame and engine production NOW. But I do not feel a need for more army air frames at this time.

But from this SP it looks like the Ki49 needs more than 10 engines a month especially since it uses 2 engines. So I need to increase the Ha34 from 10 to about 28 engines per month to match the 14 frames built. On the other hand I realy dont want to utilize the Ki49-Ia in my units. So I may wait until the IIa appears to gear up engine production.
I do ask for comments on this issue.

I don't think the Lily will survive Allied fighters in 1943. Just like I mentioned above, they are relegated to backwaters. I think the future of the IJAAF bomber force is range. Keep them as far to the rear as possible and use them for precision strikes against enemy ground forces. Against airfields, they die in droves. I'd start with Sallys and eventually Helens. If you don't like the Ki-49-Ia, keep the factory off until it upgrades. I'd build up whatever engine pool is going to be needed. Plan what you estimate you'll use and build some of the engines you'll need later. That way, you may not have to increase engine production. When you start to produce the Helen model you use, reduce/stop Sally production. As you upgrade Sally Sentai to Helens, those Sallys will replenish the pool to replace losses. Check out the reinforcement schedule to see if you get any Sally Kamikaze units at the end of the war. If so, a Sally pool is a good thing.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: bigred
Why is there one sqn of Tojo's at the beginning of the game? Also the B17s out of Darwin have been pests so I think I will try the Tojo against them, see if I can increase b17 damage.

They were prototypes. Since no more are available for quite a while, eventually they'll become trainers with 1-2 planes and a full load of pilots.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

Isn't turning a production factory to an R&D factory (after having fully repaired it) impossible with realistic R&D settings?


That is correct. Also note that once an R&D factory becomes operational, it can never become an R&D factory again.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: bigred
it is the only model that gets MAD

Please define=MAD
Please define=WAD

MAD = Magnetic Anomoly Device
WAD = Working As Designed
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: bigred
Why is there one sqn of Tojo's at the beginning of the game? Also the B17s out of Darwin have been pests so I think I will try the Tojo against them, see if I can increase b17 damage.

They were prototypes. Since no more are available for quite a while, eventually they'll become trainers with 1-2 planes and a full load of pilots.
Or you could swap out their airframes for Oscars and let them help with escorting duties in China.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: bigred
Why is there one sqn of Tojo's at the beginning of the game? Also the B17s out of Darwin have been pests so I think I will try the Tojo against them, see if I can increase b17 damage.

They were prototypes. Since no more are available for quite a while, eventually they'll become trainers with 1-2 planes and a full load of pilots.
Or you could swap out their airframes for Oscars and let them help with escorting duties in China.

I keep forgetting that. I play with PDU off so I don't have that luxury.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli




They were prototypes. Since no more are available for quite a while, eventually they'll become trainers with 1-2 planes and a full load of pilots.
Or you could swap out their airframes for Oscars and let them help with escorting duties in China.

I keep forgetting that. I play with PDU off so I don't have that luxury.
D'oh! No, Mike-*I* keep forgetting that you play with PDU off. Sorry.

ETA (tongue in cheek): What are you, nuts? [;)]
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Historiker »

ORIGINAL: Djordje

ORIGINAL: bigred


Djordje seems to have the naval LBA figured out. I like his proposal and will begin planning to execute this task.
41/12 - producing G4M1, G3M2 stopped but factory not converted, waiting for 42/5
42/5 - converting G3M2 to G3M3 (should happen automatically, you can do it manually once May starts for no cost) and starting its production, stopping G4M1
44/1 - stopping G3M3 and converting those factories to something else, starting G4M2 production

Concerning army LBA intend to study 3 types of ground support planes. sHORT RANGE gs, MEDIUM gs AND LONG RANGE gs.
1. Close single engine air support from nearby 2size AFields. Seems the KI51 SONJA is the short range plane of the future, but the old ANN has a better range and 2x bomb load. The good thing about the Sonja is the upgrade comes w/ level 1 armor in 11/43.
So next I wondered how many close ground suport SQNs I have.
Ann=5 Load 950 service 1 range 6 engine ha5 builds-0
Mary=3 load 950 service 2 range 5 engine- early kawasaki builds=0
Sonja=8 load 450 service 2 range 4 engine ha31 builds=30

The Ann wins out. Production wise speaking, untill 11/43 I will duel track the Ann/Sonja. My target for Ann Production is 30 per month. I will restart the HA 5 engine production when the Ann starts to arrive.

Supply cost. Off the top of my head(i do stand to be corrected)
to change a factory cost:
1000x supply per each point
10x HI
10x resources
or
30x1000supply=30000
10hi x30=300
10man x30=300
The next question is "what factory do I want to convert to the Ann?"

IJA LBA: I recomend that you stop production of single engine light bombers. You should have enough produced for the rare situations where you might want to use them and in general twin engined medium bombers are better for every role.

You should consider this:
41/12 - 42/09: Ki-21-IIa Sally - 60 AC per month, switch to Ki-49-IIa on 42/09
42/04 - 42/09: Ki-49-Ia - 30-60 AC per month, switch to Ki-49-IIa on 42/09
42/09 - 43/09: Ki-49-IIa - 90-120 AC per month. switch to Ki-49-IIb on 43/09
You get first Ki-68-Ia Peggy in 44/01 but by then you should already be experienced and will know what you need.

Even though Ki-49-Ia is inferior to both Ki-21 and Ki-49-IIb it has one useful advantage - it is the only model that gets MAD device in 44/06 which is useful against submarines. Once you start producing IIb model start assigning Ia to IJA squadrons that you will be using on ASW patrol and start training them for ASW missions. Just make sure not to withdraw them all from the map at the same time or your industry will recycle them.

I totally disagree with the text wirtten in bold!
1e bombers are vital. You need them for training, you need them for fronline support.
- they cost half es much as 2e. So why should he use Ki-49 to train his ASW pilots? Do they perform better, if they are used to the model? You want verey training unit equipped with 1e bombers, because they usually have a lower service raiting and the pilots thus train more. Also, the ops losses are way less expensive.
- you want bombers that can fly their missions from tiny airfields. I don't say you need them in the thousands, but you need them. They are well enough to turn a fleeing (or attacking) enemy unit from move to combat mode and so make it slower. They can also disrupt.
- you want expendable (=cheper) planes for 2nd line duty. There are spots in china where you'll never or hardly ever face an enemy fighter. So you usually don't have fighters there yourself - what for? Still, if you regularly bomb, a clever opponent may prepare an ambush once every few months. In this case, I'd rather have my cheap planes shot down than my good ones. I have my doubts that 2e bombers perform significantly better against a well trained cap of a significant size!
- they need less supplies to fly, so they are a good choice for inner china or regions with close battlefields but difficult supply routes (maybe ground support in the aleutians, or china)

I restart the ann and keep her in production until all engines on stock are used up. The Ki-51 stays in production for the roles mentioned above. They don't have to come in the thousands, but you will love to have a few available.
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RE: IJ production mistakes

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
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