Simultanious Diplomacy works how ?

[bresh]

Can someone explain how the simulanious diplomacy works ?

In our game, we upgraded in eco.phase(wasnt simultaniuos), i was surprised to hear diplomacy phase was simultanious since Marshall wrote he was gonna drop it ?


Anyway, in diplomacy phase, everyone submitted their diplomacy phase, but not everyones phases seems executed, for my nation my minor manipulations do not show in log.
GB said he DOW'ed someone, but also not seen ?
¨
Can Spain execute his diplomacy phase without loading all other players phases ?


Does he need to load next for each player or is one time sufficient ?

Basicly how does it work ?

Regards
Bresh

[DCWhitworth]

My understanding is that Spain has to wait until everyone plays their phase and then load them all up and play Spain's turn.

Frankly I find it utterly shocking that a major change to the game mechanics that is distinctly non-obvious has been released with *no* documentation ! Merely a little note in the in-game rule book that says - "We have made the Diplomacy phase simultaneous so you can perform this phase without having to wait on other players!" - no help whatsoever !

I have been a long time supporter of this game but this sucks, a totally amateurish update.

[Dancing Bear]

We just started into our first sim dip phase, with about half the players having completed their turns.

From what I see, we receive the French Diplomacy phase (or maybe it was the French land phase), and upon completion of loading it, it became our turns (that is assuming you are not Spain). You complete your diplomacy phase as normal, then send it out as normal.

Upon completion of your turn, you are asked to load the diplomacy file of the player who is normally after you, so if you are France, this is Russia, if you are GB this is Spain. Not sure why France needs to load Russia's turn instead of just Spains.

I don't know what Spain sees.

That's as far as we have got. One of our players is away, so it might be a few more days before we finish this diplomacy phase.

I agree it appears confusing.

[bresh]

I did also note as host, there was no host-autosave for month change, after eco-phase ?

That the AI/Host functions are not function for simultanious dip phase, sounds very bad.

It appear nations diplomacy orders can go missing, or is it that Spanish phase is badly coded, so that game forgets to load all other diplomacy.turn files ?
OR what went wrong for our diplomacy phase, when nations orders are not shown in log ?

I dont think 1.08.04 is a good patch, for now we where down over a 1 month, then patched up as instructed to escape 1 bug, and now this

I do agree with David, that it sounds like the design seems flawed.

Another thing, how does game handle if 1 player checked, skips his diplomacy phase ?
Does he get to do it anyway ? Does it handle it propper if he submits one ? Does it require his dip phase turn file to move on ?

What happend since Marshall wrote was going to drop simpultanious Diplomacy and now we have it but its not working propper(missing orders) ?

Regards
Bresh

[DCWhitworth]

I don't necessarily think the design is flawed because I don't know how it is supposed to work. I have no idea how it is supposed to work officially, all I have is hearsay posted on this forum, no game documentation whatever.

[Dancing Bear]

I should add that when one of our players (Turkey) tried to load the player after his in the sequence (Austria), the game would not advance out of Turkey's turn. We don't have the Spainish turn yet to see what happens.

[Marshall Ellis]

Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

[DCWhitworth]

Thanks for your input Marshall. I have some other questions -

1. How does the host skip/AI a player's diplomacy phase using the admin menu ?
2. How can you do a backup during the diplomacy phase ?
3. Since at the start of diplomacy the host's game will show his own diplomacy up does this mean the PBEM auto-backups are still valid ?
4. If a player skips their phase how would you know ? Presumably they'd have to tell everyone or they'll all sit around waiting for them to play their turn.

[bresh]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

Also like i asked, what happens if 1 MP selected skip diplomacy phase ?
What if he still submits ?


Regards
Bresh

[DCWhitworth]

ORIGINAL: bresh

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

I'd guess that's because Spain didn't execute his phase last.

[bresh]

ORIGINAL: DCWhitworth

ORIGINAL: bresh

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

I'd guess that's because Spain didn't execute his phase last.

David, Marshall wrote game waits for Spain to have all turns, so how could that be ?

And what files does Spain need to load ? How does he load them or they just have to be in his income folder ?

Regards
Bresh

[Trax]

All players load the last land (or econ) turn, then each player does their diplomacy turn and sends the turn file to only the Spanish player. The Spanish player puts all the other players diplomacy turns into the commin folder, starts and loads the game, presses the load PBEM turn button (our guy has to press it twice) then executes the Spanish diplomacy turn.

Spanish reinforcement phase is up next and when done the Spanish player sends both the Spanish diplomacy and reinf. turns to all players.

All other players put both Spanish files into the commin folder and load them both using the load PBEM button. It becomes GB reinf. turn.

Ignore the prompts that indicate who is up next in the diplomacy phase.

There is as yet no ability to skip a players diplomay turn, nor can the host create a skip diplomacy turn.

If every player is prompt the new system is faster.

[Dancing Bear]

We have just finished our first sim diplomacy phase, which went exactly as Trax describes it. A war was concluded with Turkey surrendering to Russia and Austria, and all the conditions worked correctly. Similarly, Turkey, France and Spain opened access to one another's territories, and that went through correctly. As far as I can tell everything worked exactly as it should. This is looking like a big improvement over the past system.

[Marshall Ellis]

ORIGINAL: bresh

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

Also like i asked, what happens if 1 MP selected skip diplomacy phase ?
What if he still submits ?


Regards
Bresh

Hmmmmm??? I'm not sure about the diplomacy not showing in the log! First I have heard of that in any of the test PBEM games??? I don't think we tested the skip functionality either but will check...

[bresh]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

ORIGINAL: bresh

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

Also like i asked, what happens if 1 MP selected skip diplomacy phase ?
What if he still submits ?


Regards
Bresh

Hmmmmm??? I'm not sure about the diplomacy not showing in the log! First I have heard of that in any of the test PBEM games??? I don't think we tested the skip functionality either but will check...

Marshall i think the not showing in the log, is because the phases where not executed.
Question is if a set skip diplomacy phase can create a bug for executing the diplomacy phase for Spain.
Or if Spain can somehow execute the diplomacy wrong, eg not loading all players files ?

Regards
Bresh

[bongina]

We have the same issue in our 7-player game (with 1.08.04). Everyone did their diplomacy, then Spain did his. He declared war on 4 countries (portugal, algeria, tunisia, and naples) and did 1 influence, then finished his phase and immediately did his reinforcement. The log, however, does not show his DoWs, his political points were not subtracted, AND he is still showing an INFL marker over Portugal. It seems his turn h=got skipped!

Question: How do we correct this? Can the host create a backup file and resend to everyone?

2nd Question: How did such a major error get past playtesting? Is the Spanish player doing something wrong?

[Dancing Bear]

So is everyone else's turn being excuted, but not Spain's?

I could see how in an advanced game this bug would not be noticed, because after ther first year, there are usually no minors for Spain to declare war on, so it would not have shown up. Keep in mind that the play testers are volunteers, and there are no professional testers involved.

[bongina]

Yes, everyone's diplomacy went through (and showed up on the log) EXCEPT Spain's.

[Dancing Bear]

Hi Bongina
I went back and looked at the log for the two games I am in that have completed sim dip phases. In both games, the log showed that Spain had undertaken diplomatic activity (creating freestates in one game, and granting access to an ally in the other). I can't comment specifically on DOW's and attempts to influence as those actions were not attempted, but I can say that Spain's diplomacy phase was not skipped for the two games I am in.

Can you check to see where Spain was meant to go in the random order of countries selected at the start of the phase. I'm am wondering if Spain was last. Also, was Spain able to reach all these countries with corps in fleets at the start of the turn? Finally is your Spainish player new to the game? Has he been able to DOW and influence minors in a test solo game against the AI?

[bresh]

DB, in "my" pbm game.
Spainish phase was executed and Spanish actions took place, but not GB+PR, not sure if any other majors where "passed".


Regards
Bresh