Babes AAA tweak

[oldman45]

Pre tweak I had a small convoy get hit by about a dozen kamikazi's, it wasn't pretty. 2 xAKL and an LST went down. Post tweak I had a slighty larger convoy get hit by 8 kamikazi's and they lost 6 to AAA and only damaged 2 ships. So far so good.

[Sardaukar]

It seems pretty good, I also like what I see, but I am still only to Oct 17 1942 in my last game.

[oldman45]

I should have put a date on it, I played very conservative and its July 44. I wanted to see if the Kamikazies were that dangerous. Now it seems the US ships have a chance of breaking up the attacks.

[vinnie71]

Can you please indicate where to find this tweak?
 
Thanks!

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Can you please indicate where to find this tweak?

Thanks!

It's in the latest release. See the first two posts in this thread and in this thread.

[JWE]

Click on the links at the bottom of this post and follow the directions.

The Babes series of scenarios were made and are maintained by a collective of AE developers. There is no magic, and no "alternative" stuff. They are vehicles where certain data can be expressed differently with a view to making game results a bit more historical and smoother. Many of the tweaks explored in Babes have been incorporated into stock. There are two aspects to Babes:

BabesLite is "exactly playable" as stock. It has more ships and classes, but is substantially identical. BabesLite has all the requisite data tweaks (including the AAA tweak) to be a satisfying stock substitute.

DaBigBabes is significantly different from stock scenarios and devised for utter logistic grogs. It also has all the data tweaks and significant increases and adaptations to classes, ships, land TO&Es, and device data.

If you play stock, or play against the AI, I recommend the BabesLite scenarios. They are taken directly from Scen 001 and 006 (which we also maintain, so there will be no conflicts).

[ed] sorry witpqs, didn't see your post. Thanks for dialing in.

[vinnie71]

Thanks! I actually play dababes and I thought this was something extra/besides from the second version, which I already have installed. Having a great time with the game (when I get enough time to play...)

[oldman45]

I have been able test it against several large kamakazi strikes and the tweaks really shined. I saw what I expected, Cap nailed most of them on the way in and flak knocked down many but there were still a couple that through. It "feels" right!



Now if you guys could get the brooklyns and clevelands to "feel" right [;)]

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: oldman45
I have been able test it against several large kamakazi strikes and the tweaks really shined. I saw what I expected, Cap nailed most of them on the way in and flak knocked down many but there were still a couple that through. It "feels" right!

Now if you guys could get the brooklyns and clevelands to "feel" right [;)]

That's nice to know oldman. Thanks for the input. Good to know we did something right.

I thought we got the Clevelands 'feeling' pretty good. We re-upholstered everything; couldn't afford leather, but that fake suede don't feel that bad. And every wardroom has a portrait of Elvis the King on genuine velvet.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I have been able test it against several large kamakazi strikes and the tweaks really shined. I saw what I expected, Cap nailed most of them on the way in and flak knocked down many but there were still a couple that through. It "feels" right!



Now if you guys could get the brooklyns and clevelands to "feel" right [;)]

You mean tone down the 'Invinci-Boise'? [:D]

[oldman45]

No Shark, I think they are underpowered. Do you remember the out cry when they AE came out? You would think people were losing their first male born when a Boise hit a unescorted troop convoy around the PI or DEI. Well I felt the Brooks were very accurately portrayed then but the wailing and gnashing of teeth won the day.


Disclaimer: Yes I am a huge fan of the Brooks and Cleveland's and think they should scare the living daylights out of an opponent.

JWE: And every wardroom has a portrait of Elvis the King on genuine velvet.

As long as its blue velvet we are good [;)]

[vettim89]

The modern US light cruisers were beyond compare in WWII. They were built on hulls that would be heavy cruisers in any other navy. Their ample supply of automated 6" guns plus a heavy cruiser level secondary battery should make them fearsome. The ROF on the 6" was so superior to an 8" that the small decrease in penetration was more than made up for by more rounds on target. Once they all had upgraded radars and AAA they were some of the best ships in the world (poor sea keeping and a little top heavy being there only obvious flaws). JOMHO

[Nemo121]

I'm interested in this....

From my reading of kami strikes vs picket ships it looks to me like picket DDs were doing well to down 25% of the incoming kamis. The other 2/3rds seem ( on average ) to have survived FlAK and either hit the ship or the ocean. My ratios are of kamis which survive the CAP only as those are the only ones being exposed to CAP.

If people are seeing DDs surviving 4 kamis by shooting all or most of them down I'd question if that is realistic... Surely it feels good for the Allied player but is that what history showed? It appears not to be based on what I'm reading.


It seems to me that the real killer for the Allies were the massed 5" mounts with VT and radar on the CLs, CAs and BBs. The 20mm and 40mm mount improvements in lethality may make up for the underpowering of the 5" mounts in-game but I'm concerned that it makes DDs better at surviving kamis whilst leaving CLs, CAs and BBs relatively underpowered vs kamis. This is the opposite of history...

Has anyone done any specific testing vs picket ships using quasi-historical kami strikes? If not I may run some tests myself.

[JeffroK]

I'm doing the BIgBabes as Allies and have made it to Jan 2 1942.

japanese losses to AAA have been reasonably high, the main attack aircraft have lost about 25% of their overall losses to AAA.

BUT

They havent lost many in any attack, less than 1 loss per day, and are losing very few to fighter attack so maybe the % is swayed by this.

What I like best, as a 100% AI player, is the japanese assault is moving at a closer to historical speed. On the PI the first attack on Clark wasnt until 1/1/42 (and held!!) and in Malaya Kuala Lumpur is about to be attacked so Singapore shouldnt be reached for at least another week.

ODD, actually VERY ODD!
I got a spotting report, yeah, just a sub sighting, but when I did a mouseover it ID'd variuos ship types so I got my 2 CV's into the area.

This is about 250 miles map north of Pearl.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Lihue at 178,96
 
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
 
Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
      SBD-2 Dauntless x 53
      SBD-3 Dauntless x 18
      TBD-1 Devastator x 30
 
 
Allied aircraft losses
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
      AO Nippon Maru, Bomb hits 7,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      DD Akebono, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      AO Kokuyo Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
      AO Ken'yo Maru, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
      AO Toei Maru, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
      DD Amagiri, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      AO Shinkoku Maru, Bomb hits 2,  heavy fires
      AO Kyokuto Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
      AO Toho Maru, Bomb hits 3,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
 
 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
      15 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
       4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
      18 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
      15 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
      10 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
      12 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       6 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       1 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       8 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
 
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AO Nippon Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AO Ken'yo Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AO Toei Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Amagiri
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Akebono

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Lihue at 178,96
 
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
 
Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
 
 
Allied aircraft
      F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
      SBD-2 Dauntless x 16
      SBD-3 Dauntless x 18
 
 
Allied aircraft losses
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Amagiri, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
      DD Akebono, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
 
 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       8 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
       4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 10000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
 
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Amagiri
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Akebono

[oldman45]

Nemo, I have not tried massed kamikaze strikes against individual ships. I was more interested in what happens when they come up against supported amphib and resupply convoys. So far the results look good with the cap and flak dealing with most of them. There are still some getting thru and after reading more of Morrisons books about the operations around the PI, this feels better than it did before the tweaks.

[JeffroK]

I mentioned earlier I thought I had a funny AI script when playing the BigBabes AAA Tweak,

Still holding Singapore at 20 Jan 42 and got this!!

Needless to say scratch a CA & CL.

I dont know if they were attacking or trying to sneak past?

Naval Gun Fire at Singapore - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
 
34 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Nachi, Shell hits 21, Mine hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      CL Sendai, Shell hits 3, Mine hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
      PB Choko Maru #5, Shell hits 4, Mine hits 2,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
 
 
 
Singapore Fortress firing at CA Nachi
CA Nachi firing at Singapore Fortress
Singapore Fortress firing at CL Sendai
CL Sendai firing at Singapore Fortress
Singapore Fortress firing at PB Choko Maru #5
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 140 encounters mine field at Singapore (50,84)
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Nachi, Mine hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      CL Sendai, Mine hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
 
 

[JWE]

Jeff,

AI stuff and scripts are part of the code. Nothing in Babes changes any of that; the code is same as in stock. If you think it's acting up (like a complete opposing ship type list from a mouseover) then it's maybe Tech Support time.

Nice job on the AOs, btw. That'll slow things down.

[JeffroK]

I understand, its actually a bit more interesting than the standard AI approaches.

I also got a CA led TF hitting Midway on about 15 Jan.