Sorry, but this is wrong

[rich12545]

When a company sells a game it's expected it will be supported. The editions of HCE and ANW for Ultimate are the same as what was sold except with the latest patch. They've just been repackaged. They're not new editions or anything like that. Their age is really immaterial.

I don't care about old harpoon games. The two new ones have much better features and there's no reason to play an old one. And there are more than enough scenarios available and more being made all the time. I think the majority of players feel the same. So now I'm being asked to fork over $35 (plus tax in my state) for two games I already bought just to get future patches that may or may not be forthcoming. This is really incredibly terrible service that comes from a company that normally gives good service. How in the world did MG ever come up with this crazy idea?

Furthermore, in today's economy this can be a real burden to a lot of players who already bought the game once.

I suggest MG change to one of two things.

1. Make future patches available to owners of HCE and ANW regardless of an Ultimate purchase.
or
2. Offer a $25 credit for each game previously purchased. If HCE or ANW there is a $25 discount. If both had been purchased in the past then there is a $50 discount.

How about trying to be fair.

[Hertston]

Too late. I've already forked out on the basis of the $25 discount (I already had both games) on the basis that's the only way to get future support; I don't give a rat's arse about a lot of DOS versions either. I suspect many, if not most purchasers, are in the same position, and would not be exactly pleased if things were changed now. Erik has stated it was a matter of economic necessity, which I suppose we have to accept, but I could do without the BS about this being a 'new release' rather than a 're-release'. Harpoon 4 would be a new release!

I might be in a better mood if I could even get ACW (any of them) to bl**dy work properly; they seem to have introduced a game-breaking bug in terms of mouse pointer behavior, at least for me and the others who have reported it.

[TonyAAA]

I've got mixed feeling on this. 

I understand a game won't be supported forever, but Matrix has done this kind of thing to me several times:

I bought Gary Grisby's World at War only to see support dropped in favor of the updated "a world divided"

I bought War in the Pacific only to see support dropped in favor of the Admiral's Edition.

I bought both of thier Harpoons only to see support dropped in favor of the Ultimate Edition.

At this point, I'm very leery of buying any of their new releases.

[junk2drive]

I have no interest in this game or this battle. But I must stick my thoughts in. A game developer cannot survive on one release. Some move to different subjects, some to different scales, some release a new engine with the same name and subject. Nowadays some call them modules or expansions. I just think this is the way it is going to be. You pay for a game and you pay when it changes or gets added to. Up to us to decide to get out the wallet or not.

[rich12545]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I have no interest in this game or this battle. But I must stick my thoughts in. A game developer cannot survive on one release. Some move to different subjects, some to different scales, some release a new engine with the same name and subject. Nowadays some call them modules or expansions. I just think this is the way it is going to be. You pay for a game and you pay when it changes or gets added to. Up to us to decide to get out the wallet or not.

Using this logic, pretty soon we will pay for the release and then pay for each additional patch. Sorry, it doesn't fly.

Saying MG needs to do this to make more money doesn't fly either. For example, TOAW will soon receive a major new patch that has been in the works for more than two years. There will be no charge. But nobody at MG is saying "pay us $20 or you won't get any more patches." And TOAW iirc has been around as long as Harpoon at MG. Yet they're saying this with Harpoon. It's not right.

Ultimate is not a new release. HCE and ANW don't even have new names. They are the same games.

I have no objection to this repackage setup for new purchasers. And I understand the need for more dollars. But don't screw over existing owners of the games while you're at it.

[Rosseau]

Rich and Hertston-- What if you only had HCE? Would it be worth it then?

Sorry to go off-topic a bit, and I definitely understand your concerns.

It's just I've never been able to justify having both versions. Am I wrong?

Thanks guys

[junk2drive]

I've never played this game so I don't know the details. If a game is broken to the point of not or barely playable, then it should be fixed for free. If the new release is a different engine than it should be paid for.

Did GGWAW work as advertised? And then they moved on? Or did they fix WAW and sell it as WAWAWD?

[Rosseau]

WAW worked as advertised, and WAWAWD was enhanced. Enough so I bought it, anyway.

[ruixilyy]

I have to mention that the graphics and UI of H3ANW is almost the same as early 1990s games. I guess if Red Pills releases in a year or two, then I may switch to RP instead of hanging in the buggy H3ANW. Of course, the HCE is much better, but I still think it is not a good idea to focus too much on a 20 year old game interface and graphics. Come on, it is almost 2011, and still little enhance are made to the graphics of H3! The Ageis Palette still looks ugly and indeed, it is far from reality!

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Rich and Hertston-- What if you only had HCE? Would it be worth it then?

Yes; they are very different games, and if you like one you'll probably like the other. Depends on whether your interest in the subject matter is fully sated by HCE or not. It's like everything; it's worth it if you'll get enough hours of additional entertainment out of it to justify it. You can never guarantee that in advance. The discount was less than I'd been hoping for (I certainly agree it should have been more if you had already purchased both games) but, to be honest, more than I had expected based on recent form.

[rich12545]

Exactly. It should be $25 PER game owned. Or simply provide the patches, and this would be the preferred method.

The games in the Ultimate edition are the EXACT same ones we already own. They want $35 for future patches for games we already paid for. It's not right.

[rich12545]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Rich and Hertston-- What if you only had HCE? Would it be worth it then?

Sorry to go off-topic a bit, and I definitely understand your concerns.

It's just I've never been able to justify having both versions. Am I wrong?

Thanks guys

It would be worth it if I wanted ANW. Otherwise, no.

[TonyE]

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Exactly. It should be $25 PER game owned. Or simply provide the patches, and this would be the preferred method.

The games in the Ultimate edition are the EXACT same ones we already own. They want $35 for future patches for games we already paid for. It's not right.

I mean no offense but I do take offense at you saying HCE is the EXACT same one you already own. Myself and quite a few others have invested a large amount of time on each HC patch and we look to continue doing that. I can't tell Matrix what to do but I can keep cranking out patches on a volunteer basis, that's what the HC (and most of the ANW) side is, volunteers.

[Rosseau]

Well, I'm in. But if I already had both games, I would grab the free upcoming patches and enjoy them. Then, when they had improved the Ultimate Edition to where I couldn't stand it any more, I'd lay down the $35 or whatever.

[rich12545]

ORIGINAL: TonyE

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Exactly. It should be $25 PER game owned. Or simply provide the patches, and this would be the preferred method.

The games in the Ultimate edition are the EXACT same ones we already own. They want $35 for future patches for games we already paid for. It's not right.

I mean no offense but I do take offense at you saying HCE is the EXACT same one you already own. Myself and quite a few others have invested a large amount of time on each HC patch and we look to continue doing that. I can't tell Matrix what to do but I can keep cranking out patches on a volunteer basis, that's what the HC (and most of the ANW) side is, volunteers.

No offense meant. But HCE is the exact same game I already own except for the patch. I already said that in the original post.

"The editions of HCE and ANW for Ultimate are the same as what was sold except with the latest patch."

Some of the games from MG are improved be volunteers. This is greatly appreciated. TOAW for example. Volunteers. There will be a humongous patch for TOAW soon. But MG is not charging for patches beyond that. However, they are for Harpoon. And it's not right.


Again, it's the SAME game. And MG is charging for patches. This is really beyond the pale.

[jomni]

As for me I don't have ANW so this is an incentive to jump into ANW.  But I find HCE engine to be superior and more stable.

[V22 Osprey]

Simply put, the way I see it, it's worth it if you are new or only bought one of the two games. If you bought both, I can see how it seems kind of a rip off. Yes, you get all previous versions of Harpoon, but question is;Why would I go through the trouble of running the old version when I can play a better improved version that runs natively on my system? I will buy this, but I guarantee 99% I will be playing HCE or ANW. Only running the older versions for a minute or two out of curiosity.

[JudgeDredd]

Well - my stance is this....

I only have HCE - I never bought ANW and never had the urge to.

But if either of those games (I haven't actually played HCE for quite some time - sits on the hard drive waiting though) are broken or hav broken features, then Matrixgames should be fixing them - not repackaging them and reselling them and stopping support.

The people who have both should be suitably reimbursed in order to get that continued support if Matrix wants to go down the repackage, resell and quit support route.

[noguaranteeofsanity]

I disagree and think that it is both reasonably priced and not an unreasonable decision by Matrix, nor unprecedented. It already happened when Harpoon 3.63 was reinvented as Harpoon Advanced Naval Warfare and was reasonable then, to cover the costs of further development, as it is now. Considering the market for Harpoon, Matrix will probably be very lucky to sell a few thousand copies of the game. That is basically only going to cover the costs of having a couple of staff to update and maintain the game, for a couple of years at most. I'm happy to pay, as I did when I updated from 3.63 to ANW, in order to see the game continued to be improved and maintained, instead of development and updates coming to an end, which happens to almost every other game. I have played Harpoon for probably more than 15 years now, since way back when it was available for the Amiga and it would have to be one of the lost running series of games around, so it is great to see it continue.

Also disagree about need for a graphics improvement, 3D would be next to useless in Harpoon and the interface as it is now is sufficient and extremely functional in communicating the information needed to play the game. Admittedly Red Pill looks better, but essentially it is only the map that has been dramatically improved, on top of a slightly more polished interface, but is still essentially 2D and not much different from what Harpoon offers.

[JudgeDredd]

Maybe because it's happened before you've become desensitised to the pricing issue? I don't know.

I really haven't played enough of HCE to know if there are still bugs in it and I haven't played ANW at all to know...but there seems to be one particular guy who thinks there are still some major flaws in ANW. If he's right, to stop support and repackage the same bugged game and sell it telling people they'll get support if they repay is wrong.

I think I've finished here as I have no proof either way and no intention of re-buying a game to get support - like I said - if there are game bugs that need addressing and they will not be going forward, the method being used here is wrong