Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

[warspite1]

Does anyone know what happened to Chateaurenault i.e. when was she scrapped?

[5019 Attilio Regolo - By Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 110,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 40 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 5.3-inch (135mm), 8 X 37mm guns
.B Displacement (full load): 5,334 tons
.B Thickest armour: Light splinter protection only
.P The Capitani Romanis were planned as a class of twelve small, lightly
armoured, but very fast cruisers that were designed to fulfil the role of
"destroyer killers". They were designed in response to the appearance in the late
thirties of the powerful French destroyers of the Le Fantasque and Mogador-
classes.
.P Construction of these vessels only began in April 1939 and with Italy joining
the war alongside Germany in June of the following year, only four of the twelve
planned ships were ever completed; and only three of these were actually finished
before the end of the Second World War. World In Flames allows the Italian player
to build up to ten of these ships. Note: Ulpio Traiano and Claudio Druso are not
available for building.
.P At less than 4,000 tons, the Romanis were little more than large destroyers
themselves, with nothing but anti-splinter plating to protect the bridge and the
main armament.
.P The main armament consisted of eight 5.3-inch guns mounted in four twin
turrets, while the anti-aircraft (AA) armament was provided by eight 37mm guns
and a similar number of 20mm weapons. They carried both mines and depth charges
and the weapons package was completed by two quadruple torpedo tubes.
.P A high speed was vital given that they were created primarily to counter the
fast French destroyer fleet, and the designed speed of 40 knots was exceeded.
.P The ships were all named after famous Romans. Marcus Atilius Regulus, in whose
honour this ship was named, was a Roman general, prominent during the First Punic
war.
.P Attilio Regolo (Regolo) was completed in May 1942 and she began her service
career that August. By that time, the Regia Marina (RM) was in dire trouble due
to a lack of oil to fuel the navy. Priority for this scarce resource was given to
keeping the lines of supply and communication open with the Axis troops fighting
in North Africa, and in trying to keep the Royal Navy away through the extensive
use of minefields. The smaller craft of the RM were thus kept busy doing this
unglamorous, but vital work.
.P For Regolo that work came to an abrupt halt on the night of the 7th/8th
November 1942. Regolo was at sea off the coast of Tunisia, assisting with a
minelaying operation alongside six destroyers when she was torpedoed by the
Royal Navy submarine HMS Unruffled. She was able to return home under tow, during
which she was lucky to avoid being torpedoed a second time.
.P Though repaired, her fighting war against the Allies was over. She was at
Genoa when the Italians signed the armistice with the Allies in September 1943.
Along with other fleet units, she sailed for Malta on the 8th September,
surviving an attack en route by German bombers that sunk the battleship Roma (see
Roma). After picking up survivors, Regolo headed for Port Mahon in the Balearics
where she sat out the remainder of the war.
.P In 1948 she was transferred to France as part of Italy's war reparations and
was re-named Chateaurenault.

[Le Grand Condé]

Some details about the second life of the Attilio Regolo as "Chateaurenault" (sorry it's in French, but there are a few posters that can translate this very well - and better than I could.

L'Attilio Regolo fait partie des deux croiseurs récupérés. Arrivé à Toulon le 1er août 1948, le Attilio Regolo fût rebaptisé Chateaurenault (du nom d'un croiseur léger de classe De Grasse non construit en raison de la défaite de 1940) et remis en service en 1952 après refonte aux Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée à La Seyne sur Mer et que son armement d'origine ait été remplacé par des canons de 105mm allemands et des canons de 57mm Bofors.
Il servit au sein de l'Escadre Légère comme escorteur d'escadre (future escadre de l'Atlantique) jusqu'en octobre 1962 avant d'être utilisé comme navire école à quai et d'être rayé le 2 juin 1969 avant d'être démoli.

Basically, she underwent major reconstruction in 1952 and she took part in active service until 1962. Then she was transformed into a school-ship until 1969 when she was scrapped and soon demolished.
More info available here :
http://forummarine.forumactif.com/les-n ... -t4586.htm

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Le Grand Condé

Some details about the second life of the Attilio Regolo as "Chateaurenault" (sorry it's in French, but there are a few posters that can translate this very well - and better than I could.

L'Attilio Regolo fait partie des deux croiseurs récupérés. Arrivé à Toulon le 1er août 1948, le Attilio Regolo fût rebaptisé Chateaurenault (du nom d'un croiseur léger de classe De Grasse non construit en raison de la défaite de 1940) et remis en service en 1952 après refonte aux Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée à La Seyne sur Mer et que son armement d'origine ait été remplacé par des canons de 105mm allemands et des canons de 57mm Bofors.
Il servit au sein de l'Escadre Légère comme escorteur d'escadre (future escadre de l'Atlantique) jusqu'en octobre 1962 avant d'être utilisé comme navire école à quai et d'être rayé le 2 juin 1969 avant d'être démoli.

Basically, she underwent major reconstruction in 1952 and she took part in active service until 1962. Then she was transformed into a school-ship until 1969 when she was scrapped and soon demolished.
More info available here :
http://forummarine.forumactif.com/les-n ... -t4586.htm

Warspite1

No need for translation, the English bit at the bottom is all I need. For any ship that survived the war I like to have a section on what happened to her and when she finally met her end - couldn't find it anywhere. Many thanks for taking the trouble to post [:)]

[Extraneous]

[5019 Attilio Regolo - By Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 110,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 40 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 5.3-inch (135mm), 8 X 37mm guns
.B Displacement (full load): 5,334 tons
.B Thickest armour: Light splinter protection only
.P The Capitani Romanis were planned as a class of twelve small, lightly
armoured, but very fast cruisers that were designed to fulfil the role of
"destroyer killers". They were designed in response to the appearance in the late
thirties of the powerful French destroyers of the Le Fantasque and Mogador-
classes.
.P Construction of these vessels only began in April 1939 and with Italy joining
the war alongside Germany in June of the following year, only four of the twelve
planned ships were ever completed; and only three of these were actually finished
before the end of the Second World War. World In Flames allows the Italian player
to build up to ten of these ships. Note: Ulpio Traiano and Claudio Druso are not
available for building.
.P At less than 4,000 tons, the Romanis were little more than large destroyers
themselves, with nothing but anti-splinter plating to protect the bridge and the
main armament.
.P The main armament consisted of eight 5.3-inch guns mounted in four twin
turrets, while the anti-aircraft (AA) armament was provided by eight 37mm guns
and a similar number of 20mm weapons. They carried both mines and depth charges
and the weapons package was completed by two quadruple torpedo tubes.
.P A high speed was vital given that they were created primarily to counter the
fast French destroyer fleet, and the designed speed of 40 knots was exceeded.
.P The ships were all named after famous Romans. Marcus Atilius Regulus, in whose
honour this ship was named, was a Roman general, prominent during the First Punic
war.
.P Attilio Regolo (Regolo) was completed in May 1942 and she began her service
career that August. By that time, the Regia Marina (RM) was in dire trouble due
to a lack of oil to fuel the navy. Priority for this scarce resource was given to
keeping the lines of supply and communication open with the Axis troops fighting
in North Africa, and in trying to keep the Royal Navy away through the extensive
use of minefields. The smaller craft of the RM were thus kept busy doing this
unglamorous, but vital work.
.P For Regolo that work came to an abrupt halt on the night of the 7th/8th
November 1942. Regolo was at sea off the coast of Tunisia, assisting with a
mine laying operation alongside six destroyers when the Royal Navy submarine
HMS Unruffled torpedoed her. She was able to return home under tow, during
which she was lucky to avoid being torpedoed a second time.
.P Though repaired, her fighting war against the Allies was over. She was at
Genoa when the Italians signed the armistice with the Allies in September 1943.
Along with other fleet units, she sailed for Malta on the 8th September,
surviving an attack en route by German bombers that sunk the battleship Roma (see
Roma). After picking up survivors, Regolo headed for Port Mahon in the Balearics
where she sat out the remainder of the war.
.P In 1948 she was transferred to France as part of Italy's war reparations and
was re-named Chateaurenault.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

[5019 Attilio Regolo - By Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 110,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 40 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 5.3-inch (135mm), 8 X 37mm guns
.B Displacement (full load): 5,334 tons
.B Thickest armour: Light splinter protection only
.P The Capitani Romanis were planned as a class of twelve small, lightly
armoured, but very fast cruisers that were designed to fulfil the role of
"destroyer killers". They were designed in response to the appearance in the late
thirties of the powerful French destroyers of the Le Fantasque and Mogador-
classes.
.P Construction of these vessels only began in April 1939 and with Italy joining
the war alongside Germany in June of the following year, only four of the twelve
planned ships were ever completed; and only three of these were actually finished
before the end of the Second World War. World In Flames allows the Italian player
to build up to ten of these ships. Note: Ulpio Traiano and Claudio Druso are not
available for building.
.P At less than 4,000 tons, the Romanis were little more than large destroyers
themselves, with nothing but anti-splinter plating to protect the bridge and the
main armament.
.P The main armament consisted of eight 5.3-inch guns mounted in four twin
turrets, while the anti-aircraft (AA) armament was provided by eight 37mm guns
and a similar number of 20mm weapons. They carried both mines and depth charges
and the weapons package was completed by two quadruple torpedo tubes.
.P A high speed was vital given that they were created primarily to counter the
fast French destroyer fleet, and the designed speed of 40 knots was exceeded.
.P The ships were all named after famous Romans. Marcus Atilius Regulus, in whose
honour this ship was named, was a Roman general, prominent during the First Punic
war.
.P Attilio Regolo (Regolo) was completed in May 1942 and she began her service
career that August. By that time, the Regia Marina (RM) was in dire trouble due
to a lack of oil to fuel the navy. Priority for this scarce resource was given to
keeping the lines of supply and communication open with the Axis troops fighting
in North Africa, and in trying to keep the Royal Navy away through the extensive
use of minefields. The smaller craft of the RM were thus kept busy doing this
unglamorous, but vital work.
.P For Regolo that work came to an abrupt halt on the night of the 7th/8th
November 1942. Regolo was at sea off the coast of Tunisia, assisting with a
mine laying operation alongside six destroyers when the Royal Navy submarine
HMS Unruffled torpedoed her. She was able to return home under tow, during
which she was lucky to avoid being torpedoed a second time.
.P Though repaired, her fighting war against the Allies was over. She was at
Genoa when the Italians signed the armistice with the Allies in September 1943.
Along with other fleet units, she sailed for Malta on the 8th September,
surviving an attack en route by German bombers that sunk the battleship Roma (see
Roma). After picking up survivors, Regolo headed for Port Mahon in the Balearics
where she sat out the remainder of the war.
.P In 1948 she was transferred to France as part of Italy's war reparations and
was re-named Chateaurenault.

Warspite1

Mmmm... that could be worded better couldn't it? Thanks, I will re-phrase.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Mmmm... that could be worded better couldn't it? Thanks, I will re-phrase.

I just run your posts through Microsoft Word to check spelling and grammar.

I check what is highlighted in red (possibly misspelled). If I’m not sure of the UK spelling of a word I do a search on the net for that word.

I check what is highlighted in green (grammatically questionable). Sometimes Microsoft’s idea of good grammar doesn’t sound right so I leave it alone.

I am just proofreading and suggesting corrections. I try and not make any judgments on content I leave that to Warspite1/Robert Jenkins.

If anyone wants to help doing this feel free to jump in at any time.

I won’t even mind if someone proofreads what I post.

[warspite1]

Please see an example of an Italian heavy cruiser.

[4992 Fiume - By Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 95,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 32 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 8-inch (203mm), 16 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 13,944 tons
.B Thickest armour: 6-inch (belt)
.P The Zaras were a class of four heavy cruisers that were built for the
Regia Marina (RM) between 1929 and 1932. They were the second class of heavy
cruiser built by the Italians during the inter-war years and were much improved
versions of the preceding Trento-class.
.P Their main armament consisted of eight 8-inch guns, fitted in four twin
turrets, while secondary armament was provided by sixteen 3.9-inch guns, also
fitted within twin turrets. The anti-aircraft (AA) weaponry originally consisted
of six single 40mm and four twin 12.7mm guns. These AA weapons were replaced in
the late thirties by eight 37mm and a similar number of 13.2mm guns. Two of the
3.9-inch mountings were removed as part of this modification. Further upgrades to
the AA package were made in 1942 to Gorizia, by that time the sole surviving ship
of the class. Unlike the Trentos, the Zaras were not fitted with torpedo tubes in
a bid to save weight, but aircraft carrying capacity remained at three.
.P The Zaras defensive armour was increased significantly when compared to the
Trentos. However the originally planned 8-inch belt armour had to be reduced in
thickness in order to try and keep the ships within the 10,000 ton standard limit
set by the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty. Ultimately the vertical protection was
increased from the 2.75-inch belt of the Trentos to one of 6-inches. Horizontal
protection was 2.75-inches rather than the earlier ships 2-inches. Armour
protection for the conning tower, the barbettes and the two main bulkheads were
also increased.
.P Another method by which weight savings were incorporated into the design was
by making use of new, lightweight machinery. The 95,000hp produced still allowed
a top speed of 32 knots.
.P The four ships of the class, Zara, Fiume, Gorizia and Pola, were all named
after cities located in the north-east of Italy.
.P The Zaras were a very good all round design that combined, speed, armour and
hitting power in good measure. The loss of three ships early in the war said more
about RM operational shortcomings, than it does about problems with the ships
design.
.P Fiume was completed in November 1931. At the time of Mussolini's declaration
of war against the British and French on the 10th June 1940, she was part of the
1st Cruiser Division. Two days after Italy entered the war this division was
ordered to sail in search of Royal Navy cruisers that were bombarding the Libyan
port of Tobruk. Despite a large search party, no contact was made with the enemy
(see San Giorgio).
.P The following month Fiume and her division were tasked with providing the
distant cover for the convoy operation that led to the Battle of Punta Stilo
(Calabria) which took place on the 9th July (see Giuilo Cesare). To both sides
dissatisfaction, this battle was to prove a stalemate.
.P At the beginning of September, Fiume was part of the Italian Fleet for what
proved to be perhaps the biggest missed opportunity for the RM in World War II.
The Royal Navy were attempting a supply operation to Malta, code-named Operation
HATS, and which was covered by their Mediterranean Fleet. The Italian Fleet had
an overwhelming superiority in fire-power and ship numbers but the fleet was
recalled to base prematurely, as a result of which, no engagement took place (see
Conte Di Cavour).
.P At the end of August the British launched another Malta supply operation and
Fiume was part of the Italian Fleet that sortied briefly, but then returned to
base when spotted by aircraft from the aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious.
.P She was at Taranto the night the British carried out an air attack on the
naval base, and Fiume avoided damage as the British targeted mainly the
battleships of the RM (see Littorio).
.P At the end of November the British undertook another of their complex, multi-
purpose Mediterranean operations. Operation Collar involved not only a number of
convoy missions, but also the transfer of the old battleship Ramillies, the heavy
cruiser Berwick and the light cruiser Newcastle back to the United Kingdom. Both
the Mediterranean Fleet from Alexandria and Force H from Gibraltar were required
for this operation.
.P The Italian Fleet, under Vice-Admiral Campioni, sailed from Naples and Messina
in the late morning of the 26th of November. Reconnaissance reports had alerted
Campioni to the fact that a large number of British ships were at sea, including
those of Force H. Suspecting that a Malta supply convoy was underway, Campioni
sailed for a position south of Sardinia to lay in wait for the unsuspecting
British. His fleet was made up of the battleships Vittorio Veneto and Giulio
Cesare; the heavy cruisers of the 1st Division, Pola, Fiume, and Gorizia; the
heavy cruisers of the 3rd Division, Bolzano, Trieste and Trento; and four
destroyer squadrons. Sailing in a south-easterly direction, the two cruiser
divisions led the way, with the 3rd Division ships five miles south of the 1st
Division and with Campioni and his two battleships, fourteen miles to the north-
east.
.P When news reached Campioni in the early hours of the following day that a
small force of British warships was heading west off the coast of Tunisia, he
correctly concluded that they must be on their way to join up with Force H, which
was then sailing east from Gibraltar. If he was lucky, he thought, he could
intercept and destroy the west bound ships before they made their rendezvous.
.P The small force that had been sighted was in fact Ramillies, Berwick,
Newcastle, the AA cruiser Coventry and five destroyers that had earlier left
Malta (Force D). Force D was indeed sailing west and planning to meet up with
Force H; which was itself escorting a Malta bound convoy. For this part of the
Collar operation, Force H - the carrier Ark Royal, the battlecruiser Renown, the
light cruisers Despatch and Sheffield and nine destroyers - were escorting the
light cruisers Manchester and Southampton and three transports to Malta. The plan
was that after rendezvousing with Force D, the combined force would sail east
until they reached a point south-east of Sardinia, at which time the eastbound
convoy, its close escort, and Coventry would be detached and head for Malta via
the Sicilian narrows. Force H, along with the three ships of Force D, would then
make an about turn and head for Gibraltar.
.P Unfortunately for Campioni, the two British forces had met up at 1130hrs on
the morning of the 27th November. If he was going to fight, it would have to be
against a much stronger Royal Navy force than he was bargaining on and Campioni's
orders did not allow him to engage on these terms. At just after midday he
ordered his cruisers to turn around and head toward his battleships; with the
latter remaining on a south-east course in order to close the gap to the cruisers
as quickly as possible.
.P Meanwhile, the British commander of Force H, Admiral Somerville, had been made
aware of the RM force and now turned his ships north to try and bring the
Italians to battle. Somerville disposed his ships as follows: in the van were a
cruiser force under Rear-Admiral Holland, that consisted of Berwick, Newcastle,
Manchester, Southampton and Sheffield; behind them were Ramillies, Renown and
seven destroyers; and further back still was the Ark Royal.
.P Firing commenced at 1215hrs when the British cruisers came into range of their
Italian counterparts. It was Fiume that got the battle underway at a range of
24,000 yards. Within seven minutes, both Italian divisions were sending 8-inch
shells towards Holland's ships, with HMS Berwick being the main target. The only
British heavy cruiser in the battle was hit on Y turret and fire broke out,
although she continued in the battle while the resulting fires were brought under
control.
.P Nine minutes after the battle started, the Royal Navy suddenly had the
advantage as Renown now came into range, although unfortunately for the British,
Ramillies was unable to keep pace with the battlecruiser and never got into the
action. Despite Renown's arrival it was the Italians that scored the next hit,
Berwick being the unlucky target once more. The retreating Italians kept the
Royal Navy at long distance and that, combined with the smoke of battle, meant
that little damage was otherwise done by either side. During this stage of the
battle the destroyer Lanciere was the only Italian exception to this; two 6-inch
shells hit the destroyers, although only one exploded.
.P At 1240hrs Ark Royal launched an air strike against the Italian battleships,
but this produced no results, and shortly afterwards the two RM capital ships
came into range for the first time. This development swung the advantage firmly
back to the Italian navy. However, the British did not wait around for the full
effects of the battleship's arrival to be felt and Renown and the cruisers turned
south immediately. Campioni did not give chase and the battle was effectively
over by 1315hrs. Subsequent air attacks launched from both Ark Royal and Italian
air bases proved as equally ineffectual as the attack from Ark Royal earlier that
day.
.P The battle had lasted about an hour and although the damage to Berwick meant
that nominally the Italians had come out the better, neither side were satisfied
with the outcome. Fiume had expended the most ammunition on the RM side during
the battle, with over 200 8-inch rounds being fired.
.P In early January the Giulio Cesare was damaged during an air raid on the port
of Naples and with only the Vittorio Veneto operational, offensive operations
were limited for Fiume and the RM in the early months of 1941.
.P Fiume's next important operation was Gaudo; it was also to be her last. Gaudo
was a sweep into the Eastern Mediterranean involving three cruiser divisions and
the battleship Vittorio Veneto. The operation led to the Battle of Cape Matapan
on the 28th March 1941, a battle that inflicted a crushing defeat on the RM's
heavy cruiser force, and a battle from which Fiume failed to return (see Pola).

[warspite1]

More help required please:

I am struggling to find who the Italian submarines Brin and Guglielmotti were named after.

These ships were of the Brin-class. Three of the five subs in that class were named after famous Italian physicists (Archimedes was at least born in Syracuse) but I cannot get an explanation for the names Brin or Guglielmotti. As ever, any help would be much appreciated!

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

Guglielmotti

The Brin was named after Benedetto Brin, a 19th century Naval administrator and engineer. I think he went into politics. Brief wiki article, but I haven't read it Brin article

Not sure about the Guigelmotti, but since Brin wasn't a physicist,(to my limited knowledge) maybe widen the search to politicians and naval men?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Guglielmotti

The Brin was named after Benedetto Brin, a 19th century Naval administrator and engineer. I think he went into politics. Brief wiki article, but I haven't read it Brin article

Not sure about the Guigelmotti, but since Brin wasn't a physicist,(to my limited knowledge) maybe widen the search to politicians and naval men?

Warspite1

Yes I saw that article but am not convinced that this is correct - only because the other three were physicists.

[warspite1]

I thought I would make a start on the Italian submarines - please see first example: Torricelli.

[5042 Submarine - by Robert Jenkins]
.P These write-ups give a brief history of one vessel from each of the main
classes of submarine used by the Regia Marina (RM) during World War II. World In
Flames submarine counters represent a number of submarines rather than any
specific individual boat. The dates printed on the back of the counters do not
tie up in any meaningful way with build dates for the various classes of RM
submarine class, and therefore the counter date in most cases should be ignored.
.P In September 1939, at the outbreak of World War II, the RM had one of the
largest submarine fleets of any navy in the world; this fleet was actually
slightly bigger than the combined strength of the British and German navies at
that time. Nine months later, when Mussolini took Italy to war, the RM's
submarine service numbered an impressive 117 boats. Of these, only five H-class
and two X-class boats, built at the end of the First World War, were considered
obsolete.
.P In reality, this large and, on paper at least, modern fleet, never achieved
the success that its sheer numbers suggested it might. Generally speaking,
despite much time, money and effort being expended on Italian submarine design
during the inter-war years, the RM's boats were to prove poor in comparison to
their foreign contemporaries. Slow diving speeds were a particular problem, as
were their large profiles that made their detection easier - particularly so
given the relatively confined waters of their principal areas of operation. Early
in the war some boats also fell victim to crew poisoning, caused by faulty air
conditioning units and the release of poisonous Methyl Chloride into the ship.
.P After a poor start to the war, during which ten boats were lost in two weeks,
the RM were never able to deploy more than 20-30 boats at sea at any one time.
The Germans, always quick to denounce the efforts of their ally anyway, were
greatly disappointed by the efforts of the Italian submarine service, and in this
case they probably had good cause; German U-boats achieved a much greater
degree of success upon their arrival in the Mediterranean for example.
.P The RM's submarines operated mainly in the Mediterranean, although they also
saw action in the Atlantic, and both the Red and Black Seas. Although it achieved
a few notable successes, the Italian submarine fleet took heavy losses and on
operations no less than eighty-two boats were lost during the war.
.P This counter looks at the Brin-class submarine Torricelli and looks at an
early encounter in the little known naval war fought between the RM and Royal
Navy in the Red Sea in 1940.
.B Name: Toricelli
.B Engine(s) output: 3,400 hp (Surfaced) 1,300 hp (Submerged)
.B Top Speed: 17.3 knots (Surfaced), 8 knots (Submerged)
.B Main armament: 8 x 21-inch torpedo tubes and 1 x 4.7-inch (120mm) gun
.B Displacement (Fully Submerged): 1,245 tons
.B Diving Depth: 360 ft
.P The Brins were a class of five submarines that were built for the RM
between 1936 and 1939. They were originally a class of three submarines, but two
additional boats were ordered in 1937 to replace two Archimede-class vessels that
were secretly transferred to Spain during the Spanish Civil War.
.P Their design was based to some extent on the Archimede-class and they were
amongst the smallest of the pre-war Italian designs.
.P The Brins were fitted with eight 21-inch torpedo tubes; four on the bow and
four in the stern, and could carry up to fourteen torpedoes. They were armed with
a 4.7-inch gun, initially fitted to the rear of the conning tower, but this was
later removed and fitted in the more usual forward position on deck. Four 13.2mm
machine guns were also carried.
.P In common with most Italian submarines built at this time, speed was around
17 knots while surfaced and 8 knots submerged.
.P The class were named after famous Italians - Archimedes was born in Syracuse -
with Torricelli being named after the 17th Century physicist and mathematician,
Evangelista Torricelli, who was famous for inventing the barometer.
.P At the outbreak of Italy's war on June 10th 1940, Torricelli was part of the
small naval force based at Massawa, the main port in Italian East Africa. This
large territory; located in the horn of Africa, and consisting of recently
conquered Ethiopia and the colonies of Eritrea and Italian Somaliland, was remote
from both the mother country and even Libya, the nearest Italian overseas
possession. While in theory this Italian outpost could have proved a thorn in the
side of the British; threatening the southern approaches to the Suez Canal and
the British supply routes to the Near and Far East, in reality it was nothing of
the sort.
.P The fleet, commanded by Rear-Admiral Balsamo, and consisting of eight
submarines, seven destroyers, two torpedo boats and a collection of smaller
craft, was simply too small to cause the British too much trouble - and certainly
not for any length of time - as supplies of oil and ammunition would only be
available to the fleet for about six months.
.P While the Italian army in East Africa was able to defeat and remove British
and French forces from their own colonies in Somaliland - albeit only temporarily
- the Italian naval forces were to achieve no such success.
.P To make a poor situation worse for Balsamo, the British had intercepted orders
from Rome to place Italian East Africa on a war footing back in May, about two
weeks before Mussolini's actual declaration of war. As a result, convoys through
the Gulf of Aden/Red Sea area were suspended, and the Royal Navy's Red Sea
Squadron was reinforced.
.P On the 10th June, when Balsamo unleashed his submarines upon what he thought
were the unsuspecting British and their vulnerable convoy routes, they found only
destroyers, auxiliaries and other vessels on anti-submarine patrol. Just one lone
tanker was sunk during the first two weeks of war, and in return, the Italians
lost half of their submarines in the region. Macallé fell victim to the poisonous
effects of Methyl Chloride; Galilei was captured by the armed trawler Moonstone
and Galvani was sunk by the sloop Falmouth. The day before Galvani's sinking,
Torricelli became the third submarine lost in those first two weeks of war.
.P On the 14th June, Torricelli was ordered to sail south from Massawa to the
Gulf of Aden. The submarine Ferraris was stationed off Djibouti, French
Somaliland, but had to be taken off station due to another Methyl Chloride
episode; Torricelli was sent to replace her. However, on her way to replace
Ferraris, Torricelli ran into a British force on the 21st June and in a brief
engagement, was damaged sufficiently to warrant a return to port. While returning
home two days later, she came across a force of three destroyers and two sloops
off Perim Island; where the Gulf of Aden meets the Red Sea. The captain of the
Italian submarine headed for Assab in Eritrea, where he hoped he would find a
degree of protection from the shore batteries there; but she never made it.
.P Torricelli's dash for safety took place on the surface and she used her deck
gun to fire back at her British tormentors. She near-missed the sloop Shoreham
with two salvoes before a 4.7-inch round from the destroyer Kingston found its
target. Following the hit, Torricelli began to sink. It had been a valiant effort
to evade destruction but Torricelli sank just over two hours after the initial
sighting that morning.
.P For Torricelli's crew their long day was not over. After being picked up by
the destroyer Khartoum, they were on their way to port when the British destroyer
suffered an accidental torpedo explosion. None of the Italian crew were injured
in the blast but they had to be rescued for the second time that day as the Royal
Navy vessel was damaged beyond repair and sank.

[warspite1]

Does anyone know why the Regia Marina would have changed the name of one of their light cruisers from its planned name of Luigi Rizzo to Venezia? Luigi Rizzo was an Italian naval war hero (as was Costanzo Ciano the name given to the other ship in the class). So why the change? Rizzo was arrested by the Germans in 1943 so I thought he may be an anti-fascist, but the name change took place in 1940. Any Italian history buffs out there?

[Terminus]

Does it matter? Neither ship was even laid down.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Does it matter? Neither ship was even laid down.

Warspite1

I am fully aware they were not laid down, that is not the point; they were planned by the RM and in WIF/MWIF the Italian player may choose to build these cruisers. As a result, they have a counter, and as a result of that, they have a unit write-up. All the write-ups try and identify why certain names were used - Venezia is no exception - and indeed there may be an interesting story to it. I was just wondering if anyone could assist....

[Terminus]

Just because the Germans didn't arrest him until 1943, doesn't mean he WASN'T an anti-fascist before then. Who knows, he might just have fallen from grace in the eyes of Il Duce; didn't take much.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Just because the Germans didn't arrest him until 1943, doesn't mean he WASN'T an anti-fascist before then. Who knows, he might just have fallen from grace in the eyes of Il Duce; didn't take much.

Warspite1

[&:] well of course - but I am not going to put that in the write-up, because while it might be a good guess, it might also be total nonesense - that's why I asked for help.

[Terminus]

Didn't ask you to put it into the write-up.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Does anyone know why the Regia Marina would have changed the name of one of their light cruisers from its planned name of Luigi Rizzo to Venezia? Luigi Rizzo was an Italian naval war hero (as was Costanzo Ciano the name given to the other ship in the class). So why the change? Rizzo was arrested by the Germans in 1943 so I thought he may be an anti-fascist, but the name change took place in 1940. Any Italian history buffs out there?

Warspite1

The question still stands if anyone can assist?

[Extraneous]

Do you know if the Costanzo Ciano was named for the elder or the younger Costanzo Ciano?
 
Both were war heroes but the younger was Benito Mussolini's son-in-law.
 

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Do you know if the Costanzo Ciano was named for the elder or the younger Costanzo Ciano?

Both were war heroes but the younger was Benito Mussolini's son-in-law.

Warspite1

No, that is incorrect. Costanzo Ciano was named after the father of Galeazzo Ciano, who was Mussolini's son-in-law. Galeazzo was no war hero, but a lawyer by trade, who, having married Mussolini's daughter, rose to become the Italian foreign minister. When the war started going badly for Italy from day 1 he became more and more dissillusioned with Italy's prospects and ultimately voted to oust his father-in-law - an action that ultimately led to his execution.