Thirty Years War - games on PC

[EdgarPatrick]

Are there any games that deal with the Thirty Years War (battles, campaigns etc.)? I know Musket and Pike from HPS exists (not 30 Years War but a close cousin). There were a ton of battles, interesting personalites and fascinating history from this time period.
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[berto]

HPS has hinted that the Musket & Pike series will continue beyond the first title, The Renaissance. So we might expect to see an HPS Thirty Years War era game from them sooner or later.

[Anthropoid]

IIRC, there is a Thirty Years War start setup in the Europa Universalis 3 Heir to the Throne engine by Paradox. That game covers 1399 to I think 1800 or thereabouts. It is also rather moddable.

Yep. Just checked. There is a stock Thirty Years War scenario in the game.

[sullafelix]

Ah one of my Holy Grails of wargaming. This one plus the Great Northern War, German Unification Wars, and a hex based Napoleonic Campaigns like the boardgame War&Peace and bliss would be mine.

[SireChaos]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

IIRC, there is a Thirty Years War start setup in the Europa Universalis 3 Heir to the Throne engine by Paradox. That game covers 1399 to I think 1800 or thereabouts. It is also rather moddable.

Yep. Just checked. There is a stock Thirty Years War scenario in the game.

EU3 is a rather lower level of detail than most hardcore wargamers are comfortable with. Still, it´s the best I can think of - unless perhaps somebody has made a Medieval Total War 2 mod for this.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

IIRC, there is a Thirty Years War start setup in the Europa Universalis 3 Heir to the Throne engine by Paradox. That game covers 1399 to I think 1800 or thereabouts. It is also rather moddable.

Yep. Just checked. There is a stock Thirty Years War scenario in the game.

EU3 is a rather lower level of detail than most hardcore wargamers are comfortable with. Still, it´s the best I can think of - unless perhaps somebody has made a Medieval Total War 2 mod for this.

Very true. If EU3 could work in some tactical stuff it would be much better. Not to mention that, as the game progresses, the human and AI accumulate absurdly large standing armies. Main reason I quit my last game as Castille-Spain: I had stacks of ~100k forces in everyone of my border provinces in (what used to be) northern Italy, and southern France, and the Bavarians, Austrians, and disarticulated French kindgoms had similarly large stacks on the other sides of the borders; this was in like 1680 or thereabouts; maybe earlier. _Totally_ unrealistic for a game that is so focused on realistic political and social dynamics.

The way colonies and overseas trade is handled (not to mention navies) I also found rather deficient.

Not sure if it would work but . . . I wonder if anyone has tried to use the TOAWIII engine for that era?

[berto]

I've lost interest in EU3 and the entire Paradox lineup. Simplifications overlaying abstractions encompassing a hollow mechanistic core. And necessarily so!

My dream is an EU-like simulation going beyond even the depth, detail, and "realism" of WITP:AE and developed and supported by a community of technically competent grognards who truly know and understand history. Such a simulation is beyond the industry's capability, there's little market for it. (Most people are looking for a game where they can indulge their favorite world conquest or imperial fantasy, actual historical processes be damned.) A "realistic" or at least "plausible" world history mega simulation is never gonna happen, not in my lifetime anyway.

Play EU3, or one of its philosophically bankrupt, quasi-historical cousins? Where gamey "fun" is paramount? No thanks, I really would rather "go read a history book."

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: berto

I've lost interest in EU3 and the entire Paradox lineup. Simplifications overlaying abstractions encompassing a hollow mechanistic core. And necessarily so!

My dream is an EU-like simulation going beyond even the depth, detail, and "realism" of WITP:AE and developed and supported by a community of technically competent grognards who truly know and understand history. Such a simulation is beyond the industry's capability, there's little market for it. (Most people are looking for a game where they can indulge their favorite world conquest or imperial fantasy, actual historical processes be damned.) A "realistic" or at least "plausible" world history mega simulation is never gonna happen, not in my lifetime anyway.

Play EU3, or one of its philosophically bankrupt, quasi-historical cousins? Where gamey "fun" is paramount? No thanks, I really would rather "go read a history book."

I like your vision. Count me in as one of the Grogs to help develop it! Yes We Can! Yes We Can! [:D]

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: berto

I've lost interest in EU3 and the entire Paradox lineup. Simplifications overlaying abstractions encompassing a hollow mechanistic core. And necessarily so!

My dream is an EU-like simulation going beyond even the depth, detail, and "realism" of WITP:AE and developed and supported by a community of technically competent grognards who truly know and understand history. Such a simulation is beyond the industry's capability, there's little market for it. (Most people are looking for a game where they can indulge their favorite world conquest or imperial fantasy, actual historical processes be damned.) A "realistic" or at least "plausible" world history mega simulation is never gonna happen, not in my lifetime anyway.

Play EU3, or one of its philosophically bankrupt, quasi-historical cousins? Where gamey "fun" is paramount? No thanks, I really would rather "go read a history book."

Harsh but fair.

I like EU3. It is what it is. It is, however, not remotely comparable to WITP:AE, which is probably my number one favourite game (well at least until WITE comes out). IMHO, the main difference between the two is eptimised by the audience it attracts. Whilst there are some posters at the Paradox forum who would be recognised as grognards, there are a considerable number of young, school children who lack perspective and knowledge and consequently believe EU3 to be the pinnacle of the genre.

Alfred

[SireChaos]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

IIRC, there is a Thirty Years War start setup in the Europa Universalis 3 Heir to the Throne engine by Paradox. That game covers 1399 to I think 1800 or thereabouts. It is also rather moddable.

Yep. Just checked. There is a stock Thirty Years War scenario in the game.

EU3 is a rather lower level of detail than most hardcore wargamers are comfortable with. Still, it´s the best I can think of - unless perhaps somebody has made a Medieval Total War 2 mod for this.

Very true. If EU3 could work in some tactical stuff it would be much better. Not to mention that, as the game progresses, the human and AI accumulate absurdly large standing armies. Main reason I quit my last game as Castille-Spain: I had stacks of ~100k forces in everyone of my border provinces in (what used to be) northern Italy, and southern France, and the Bavarians, Austrians, and disarticulated French kindgoms had similarly large stacks on the other sides of the borders; this was in like 1680 or thereabouts; maybe earlier. _Totally_ unrealistic for a game that is so focused on realistic political and social dynamics.

The way colonies and overseas trade is handled (not to mention navies) I also found rather deficient.

Not sure if it would work but . . . I wonder if anyone has tried to use the TOAWIII engine for that era?

I don´t think TOAW3 has been tried for anything older than American Civil War (there is a Gettysburg scenario); I think Napoleonic era would work more or less as well as that. But before that? I have no idea.

[berto]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

ORIGINAL: berto
My dream is an EU-like simulation going beyond even the depth, detail, and "realism" of WITP:AE and developed and supported by a community of technically competent grognards who truly know and understand history...

I like your vision. Count me in as one of the Grogs to help develop it! Yes We Can! Yes We Can! [:D]

If We Can, it would likely be an international, Linux-like Open Source project spanning decades of ongoing, continuous development and refinement.

The other day, I was reading a history of WWII in the Southwest Pacific and how, going in, near totally ignorant the combatants were of the theater, in particular how they lacked more than the most rudimentary of maps. Out of curiosity, I visited Google Maps and viewed Guadalcanal, New Guinea, New Georgia, Bougainville, etc. to a level of zoom-in showing actual roads and buildings. Astounding! To us today, even more would it be so for the admirals and generals from 70 years earlier.

Given another 70 years, and the leveraging power of computers and the Internet (and technologies still undreamed of), who knows? Maybe just maybe such an Open Source mega history simulation might happen. But sadly, "not in my lifetime anyway."

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: berto

I've lost interest in EU3 and the entire Paradox lineup. Simplifications overlaying abstractions encompassing a hollow mechanistic core. And necessarily so!

My dream is an EU-like simulation going beyond even the depth, detail, and "realism" of WITP:AE and developed and supported by a community of technically competent grognards who truly know and understand history. Such a simulation is beyond the industry's capability, there's little market for it. (Most people are looking for a game where they can indulge their favorite world conquest or imperial fantasy, actual historical processes be damned.) A "realistic" or at least "plausible" world history mega simulation is never gonna happen, not in my lifetime anyway.

Play EU3, or one of its philosophically bankrupt, quasi-historical cousins? Where gamey "fun" is paramount? No thanks, I really would rather "go read a history book."

Harsh but fair.

I like EU3. It is what it is. It is, however, not remotely comparable to WITP:AE, which is probably my number one favourite game (well at least until WITE comes out). IMHO, the main difference between the two is eptimised by the audience it attracts. Whilst there are some posters at the Paradox forum who would be recognised as grognards, there are a considerable number of young, school children who lack perspective and knowledge and consequently believe EU3 to be the pinnacle of the genre.

Alfred

I bought EU3 and could never understand it. Man, I was lost. [:(]

[Anthropoid]

I go up for tenure in 2012. I'm now caught up on my publishing (just got two accepted during the last week whoo hoo!), and have plenty of projects and additional papers in the pipeline, so I'd say I'm on track.

Once I have tenure, I really would like to be more substantially involved in a game-development community, and the vision you've outlined is a good overarching one I'd say.

At the time I got back into Civ (played Civ I, took a ten-year hiatus from gaming while I finished college and grad school; bought Civ3 in about 2002 or 2003) I had hopes that that series would be able to move more in the direction you are talking about, or at least provide a framework for mods to go in that direction. However, with the incredibly heavy graphics burden that Civ4 placed on the engine (not to mention the actual limitations in modding) as well as the incredible plummet from that trajectory with Civ5 I've given up that vague hope.

[berto]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

I go up for tenure in 2012 ... Once I have tenure, I really would like to be more substantially involved in a game-development community, and the vision you've outlined is a good overarching one I'd say.

At the time I got back into Civ ... I had hopes that that series would be able to move more in the direction you are talking about ...

Are you a historian?

Civ [1-5]? I hope you're kidding. That game series is at least several steps more fantasy-like than the EU* series. History as comic book.

I would participate in The Dream Project, but never ever lead it. Leadership--that is the key. We would need that special individual, not only a technical visionary of the highest order, even more so a charismatic, entrepreneurial genius like Linux' Linus Torvalds able to motivate and organize others to do most of the work.

Nice to think about, isn't it?

[redcoat]

I think there were rumours about AGEOD considering a Thirty Years War game a few years ago. They definitely looked at the possiblity of doing an English Civil War game.

Perhaps there will be a Field of Glory: Renaissance computer game one day? With a module covering the Thirty Years War and the English Civil War.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: redcoat

I think there were rumours about AGEOD considering a Thirty Years War game a few years ago. They definitely looked at the possiblity of doing an English Civil War game.

Perhaps there will be a Field of Glory: Renaissance computer game one day? With a module covering the Thirty Years War and the English Civil War.

Their tabletop Renaissance rulebook is out so a computer version of it will definitely be considered I guess.

For a 30 Years War themed game : Wallenstein - a web-based free version of it is available here : http://www.spielbyweb.com/ - I'm currently in the middle of a MP game there and it's a hoot.

But the best (and most fun) overall wargame implementation of the entire 30 Years War in a wargame is still this one :

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4802 ... man-empire

Can't wait for the day they computerize that one

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: berto

Are you a historian?

Civ [1-5]? I hope you're kidding. That game series is at least several steps more fantasy-like than the EU* series. History as comic book.

I would participate in The Dream Project, but never ever lead it. Leadership--that is the key. We would need that special individual, not only a technical visionary of the highest order, even more so a charismatic, entrepreneurial genius like Linux' Linus Torvalds able to motivate and organize others to do most of the work.

Nice to think about, isn't it?

Anthropologist with a psychobiological focus (stress, appetite, addiction).

I agree Civ has always been pretty comic-book like. But, by virtue of being so open-ended and moddable (at least putatively) it once seemed to have promise as "the engine" on which the whole thing could be based/developed from. Civ 3 Conquests I think was the zenith of that promise with one caveat: it was actually less moddable than Civ4, which got a bit more moddable but became more difficult to mod, and also way too graphics heavy.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: berto

I've lost interest in EU3 and the entire Paradox lineup. Simplifications overlaying abstractions encompassing a hollow mechanistic core ...

And to think that the original EU was awarded "game of the year," but like the Matrix trilogy, the last installment was the most disapointing.

[yoshino]

ORIGINAL: redcoat
I think there were rumours about AGEOD considering a Thirty Years War game a few years ago. They definitely looked at the possiblity of doing an English Civil War game.

Once I thought make a 30 years war mod on AGE engine.It would be a neat idea.
If I have a spare time ,I would like to make...(sigh)

[Anonymous]

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