Emergency Reinforcements--Tasmania

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

4) The units are pretty typical (I don't want to post ten more jpegs.) The emergency supply convoy arriving at Cape Town has this composition:

Since there seems to be a fair bit of interest in this topic, I thought I'd go ahead and post, for the archives, JPEGs of what gets activated in Oz.

1) 44th British Division

[Bullwinkle58]

2) 2nd British Para

[Bullwinkle58]

3) 1st AA Bde

[Bullwinkle58]

4) 7th SA Armoured

[Bullwinkle58]

5) 9th Aus Div

[Bullwinkle58]

6) 27th Rhodesian Brig

[Bullwinkle58]

7) Natal Mtd Rifles

[Bullwinkle58]

Several things jump out of these emergency forces Andy Mac put together, First, they almost all are under-supported, in a few cases seriously so. They'll need some time to reconstitute either at their arrival base, or in a safe, well-supplied hex in Oz. Second, their stats, especially experience, are all over the board. Third, so is their leadership. Fourth, there are some odd devices in a few of them, such as the Natal Mtd Rifles. I don't know how well they'll do replacements if you get them banged up.

Enjoy.

[crsutton]

I don't see much of a problem with the outdated OOBs. They are not so odious and every unit comes with a full compliment of squads and support weapons even if they are a bit dated. I would rather have them than not. Most important is that they all have a full compliment of vickers squads (never enough) and all have the 25 pounder guns instead of the weaker 18 pounders. Some have the 6 pounder AT gun. And, the SA armored brigade's valentine and stuart tanks are plenty good enough to whip any Japanese tank unit until 1945. In mid 1943 in my campaign I still have plenty of valentine equipped units. Biggest thing missing is the improved AT value that Commonwealth 1943 squads have but I see that every unit has the piat bren carriers which would help. Bigger problem is the low morale and experience of some units in my view.

If they get triggered late in the game, the Allied player should have plenty of surplus that the units would upgrade very quickly anyways.

Funny, I noticed that the India trip line units have a mix of 42 and 43 squads while one division has the Commonwealth 44 squads! A powerful unit indeed if it comes in in 1942.

[Andy Mac]

OOB's and squads will upgrade quickly if they arrive later.
 
Most of the European TOE units are undersupported organically one of the Jungle changes is to reducve the amount of heavy weapons and increase the organic support % of these units

[vettim89]

I know this is modable. From my stand point I would envision more US units entering as counter invasion reinfrocements. The units that appear for Oz and NZ were pretty busy in the Middle East throughout 1942. As that is the most likely time when the Line of Death might be triggered, I think that is more likely. There were a huge number of US Divisions whose deployment was imminent. I would think that the Torch forces or more likely the units commited to Italy might have found their way to the southern hemisphere before the 8th Army was stripped. Also a resupply convoy with lots of airframes for the understrengthed USAAC units would be likely too.

Maybe 2nd Arm Div, 3rd ID, and 9th ID with Gen. George S. Patton in charge? Patton's stats of course would be 99's across the board. Hey, an AFB can dream

Seriously I could easily see Marshall releasing at least a couple of ID's and some armor. Probably not a full division though but even a fully filled out CCA would rip the Japanese Armor to shreds in the Australian Desert

[Bullwinkle58]

Maybe, but the politics were complicated. The idea of the Allies wasn't fully solidified in 1942. Certainly not like it was by the summer of 1945 when the UN was formed. To Americans in 1942, Oz might as well as been the moon, and while lots of US divisions were forming and training, there wasn't a surplus by any means, especially of armor. The US public would have needed to be sold hard to send a fair portion of "their" defenses to the other side of the globe. FDR was beloved, but he knew he also had to run for reelection in 1944.

Then there's the British Empire pride factor. I'm not in a great position to judge that, but I can see Winnie figuring North Africa wasn't going anywhere and could wait if Oz was threatened with conquest and slave labor camps. I think Andy Mac got it about right. However, there's no denying htat a Japanese invasion of Oz, or India, or Hawaii would have changed the course of the ETO war. There's no way around it.

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Maybe, but the politics were complicated. The idea of the Allies wasn't fully solidified in 1942. Certainly not like it was by the summer of 1945 when the UN was formed. To Americans in 1942, Oz might as well as been the moon, and while lots of US divisions were forming and training, there wasn't a surplus by any means, especially of armor. The US public would have needed to be sold hard to send a fair portion of "their" defenses to the other side of the globe. FDR was beloved, but he knew he also had to run for reelection in 1944.

Then there's the British Empire pride factor. I'm not in a great position to judge that, but I can see Winnie figuring North Africa wasn't going anywhere and could wait if Oz was threatened with conquest and slave labor camps. I think Andy Mac got it about right. However, there's no denying htat a Japanese invasion of Oz, or India, or Hawaii would have changed the course of the ETO war. There's no way around it.

As it is all speculative , what would truly happen in such an event is unknown. I would wholy agree that additional US forces for India would be less likely with the proviso that Roosevelt was strongly commited to keeping China in the war. So while there was cetainly an anti-imperial sentiment in the US, there was still a serious commitment to CBI.

Churchill and FDR had a pretty good relationship. I cannot feel that an impassioned plea from his friend might move Roosevelt. As to the halfway around the world point, the US was already sending huge quantities of men and material to the SoPac, NZ, and Oz. We are not talking about robbing the US homeland defnese but instead robbing the ETO. By late 1942, the US had gotten well beyond the point of "invasion" panic that gripped the populace in the frist few months of the war. The US Army was gearing up for action in the Med by mid year. The Operation Torch OOB included 5 ID, 2 Arm Div, please a para RGT. Thats more combat force for one operation than was sent to the Pacific until 1944 as far as the Army goes. My point being that if times were desperate in the Pacific that the US was truly the only Allied power that had forces to spare

[Andy Mac]

My assumption was that if this was going to happen at all it would happen in early 42 and therefore forces of that nationality would be sent home

i.e 9th Aus Div/2nd NZ Div and the Indian Army Divs.

For the rest I looked for forces en route to ME in a similar way that 18th British Div was diverted or that were uncommitted at this time.

So 44th and 51st Divs were heading to ME and could have been diverted, 2nd Can Armoured Bde had not yet departed and 2nd Para Bde was still in training etc etc.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

My assumption was that if this was going to happen at all it would happen in early 42 and therefore forces of that nationality would be sent home

i.e 9th Aus Div/2nd NZ Div and the Indian Army Divs.

For the rest I looked for forces en route to ME in a similar way that 18th British Div was diverted or that were uncommitted at this time.

So 44th and 51st Divs were heading to ME and could have been diverted, 2nd Can Armoured Bde had not yet departed and 2nd Para Bde was still in training etc etc.

There's no doubt that it's difficult to choose given you have to make a static package and the trigger could come at any time for three+ years. I agree that 1942 is the best shot.

That said, I was interested/surprised to see the Canadian unit dispatched to NZ. Almost be a moot point by the time they got there, no?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

My assumption was that if this was going to happen at all it would happen in early 42 and therefore forces of that nationality would be sent home

i.e 9th Aus Div/2nd NZ Div and the Indian Army Divs.

For the rest I looked for forces en route to ME in a similar way that 18th British Div was diverted or that were uncommitted at this time.

So 44th and 51st Divs were heading to ME and could have been diverted, 2nd Can Armoured Bde had not yet departed and 2nd Para Bde was still in training etc etc.

Does the game code allow for a different reinforcement package depending on date? That is, keep your current pakages if triggered in 1942, alter the reinforcement packages if triggered in 1943?

Alfred

[Andy Mac]

No its one package only and the aircraft were only added at a very late date in the process

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

No its one package only and the aircraft were only added at a very late date in the process

In India, in 1942, those might be the gold nuggets of the lot.

[undercovergeek]

being the Japanese im unfamilar with off map arrivals and their routes to 'on map' - if the majority of the LCUs arrive at cape town, how long does it take to get to Oz from Capetwon and where on the playable map do they appear - and is it considered gamey and unfair to park the KB in the vicinity?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

being the Japanese im unfamilar with off map arrivals and their routes to 'on map' - if the majority of the LCUs arrive at cape town, how long does it take to get to Oz from Capetwon and where on the playable map do they appear - and is it considered gamey and unfair to park the KB in the vicinity?

The time is going to depend on the speed of the ship. To get from CT to the exit from the transit zone (shaded box on map edge) might be circa 8-14 days more or less for merchants.

I wouldn't consider parking the KB anyplace on the map deep enough for it to go to be gamey, but that's me. Opinions differ. However, realize that fuel will be a concern waaaay over there by the wormhole exit points, and you can't really patrol all of the possibilities for the CT to Perth route due to the size of the transit zone (from 4,12 to 4, 175 per Section 4.2.4.4.1) If your opponent uses Direct routing they will dump out at 4, 147, but if he suspects you are waiting to pounce he can route them from CT to exit anywhere on the zone's eastern edge, and accept a longer at-risk transit to Perth.