New and overwhelmed

[LRRP67]

Good afternoon all,

I just recently purchased my copy of TOAW3 and I am in the process of reading the manual and making notes/spreadsheets etc. I have had some experience in the past with other hex based games such as War in Russia and a few others.

I am very much interested in the Vietnam and WWII scenarios and would like to start my TOAW3 adventure with some Vietnam grand strategy as a breath of fresh air. However, I had a few questions and was wondering if there was a TOAW3 veteran or two out there who would be so kind as to lend a hand with a couple of questions. I have skimmed over a few posts here and I do see a few threads/guides aimed at new players that I will be sure to dive into over the coming weeks.

I see there is mention of a 3.4 patch BETA and updates and I was wondering if there is someone who would be able to provide me with correct installation instructions on this or point me in the direction of a thread with a step by step process on how to accomplish this. Please forgive my ignorance in advance.

I was also wondering if this patch is recommended for the Vietnam scenarios as I did not see some of them in the "whats new for 3.4" thread, with the exception of Boonie Rats which look very interesting, and if there are any recommended Nam scenarios to start out with. I am thinking about balance in particular.

As my war is just beginning, I am sure I will have questions in the future and any help/direction would be greatly appreciated. If these questions have already been answered please accept my sincerest apologies in advance.

Best Regards,

LRRP67

[Boonierat]

Welcome to the forums LRRP67 (were you in Vietnam by the way, your forum name would suggest so), you might want to try some of my Vietnam Combat Operations scenarios, they are for solo play only, although they might be a bit overwhelming at first for someone with no experience with TOAW. They also haven't been tested with 3.4 yet but should run ok hopefully. If you're interested, make sure to grab the latest versions of my scens by clicking on the banner below. Hope you'll enjoy them, I've tried to make them as historically accurate as possible [8D]

[LRRP67]

Hi Boonierat,

I have every intention of trying your scenarios once I have read the manual and get some instructions on the patching process. I did a quick search of "Vietnam" on the forums and one thread suggested your scenarios and claimed them to be quite a challenge and I am really looking forward to them. I think it would be prudent for me to learn the rules first before heading in country.

As for Vietnam, I was never there myself but I have had the privilege of interviewing and speaking with 7 veterans over the last 11 years. I am nothing more than a military history buff I am afraid...sorry to disappoint. Is there anyway I could trouble you for installation instructions regarding the patching process?

[Boonierat]

I suggest you install patch 3.2.29.27 first, it was the last patch before 3.4 beta which hasn't been fully finalized yet, you can download it here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/317 ... of.War.III

It is a comprehensive patch meaning it can be applied to a fresh TOAW install.

[LRRP67]

My apologies on the 3.4 patch. Perhaps I misread the thread as I saw mention of a 3.4.178? or a 196 or something of the sort. The version I have of TOAW matches the one you posted above. Would you recommend I wait for the new patch or install the Beta? My apologies again, forgive me I am new. Your scenarios look great by the way. I was wondering if you have a grand campaign as well?

[Boonierat]

I think you should stay with the version you have now, and switch to 3.4 when its finalized. I gave up the idea of doing a grand campaign long ago, I found it impossible to do with the level of detail I wanted. There's some good efforts out there though, the best probably being Campaign For South Vietnam by Curt Chambers.

[samba_liten]

If you decide to try the patch.


Go to http://www.matrixgames.com/community/
Create an account and log in to the members club.
On the right, click on register games, and follow the instructions to register TOAW III.
Then find the link for registered downloads.
Scroll down the list untill you find Norm Kogers TOAW III.
Once you have finished downloading the installer is very straight-forward. Just point it to the directory where your game is installed.

[LRRP67]

Boonierat - Thank you for the advice. After viewing all of your scenarios to date I am sure that will keep me busy for awhile and they look intense. Is the Beta patch recommended for the Vietnam grand campaign? And in your personal opinion would you start with your scenarios or the Campaign for South Vietnam? Either way, all of them are on the menu in the near future.


Polarenper - thank you for the directions, I greatly appreciate all of the help.

[ralphtricky]

LRRP67,
You may want to start with the Tutorials in the Tutorials directory or something small like Arracourt in the Classics directory.

They're a bit simpler, and you can ignore some things like Airborne to start with when learning, and the games are shorter so you can try different things.

I'd try not to swallow the elephant in one gulp, learn the rules as you need them and use search in the manual.

On the other hand, a subject that you're interested in means that you're more likely to learn, so that's going for the Vietnam scenarios.

I'd wait and see if the official patch is out in the next week or two before installing the beta patch. It does add several usability features which should help a new player, but they could wait. The official patch should be out very soon, it's waiting for resources to package it. I can't control this, so I can't guarantee when it's going to be out, but it should be 'soon.'

The big things that the patch adds for a new player is that you can do a left click select right click moves instead of popping up the menu(it's optional), the thumb wheel zooms (4 stops), there is a pop up that shows the terrain modifiers, and the combat planner has been improved. There's a bunch of other stuff, but those are the things in 3.4 I can think of for new players.

Have fun and ask questions.
Ralph

[LRRP67]

Hi Ralph,

Thank you very much for the help. I reall appreciate it. I will follow your recommendation and wait for the new patch to be finalised. I am currently going through the manual and making some notes and a couple spreadsheets which seemed to help me years ago with War in Russia. I am also very much interested in the WWII scenarios and I am certainly no stranger to that time period. Since I spent so much time playing WWII strategy over the last decade and a half I figured I would start with my other interest, being the Vietnam conflict, as a breath of fresh air. I am very much interested in seeing how the programmed opponent deals with a conflict that has no difinitive front lines. I have never played any turn based strategy games based on this conflict with the exception of Vietnam squad battles but I was looking for something with a little more detail a la TOAW3.

At first glance and as I am going through my notes I absolutely love the detail that I am seeing so far and I can not wait to dive in however I am making sure I have the basics down before doing so. Regarding the patch, I was asking Boonierat about it because after doing a search on "Vietnam" in the forums I came across a gentlemens post who mentioned something about VC and NVA units being able to hit and damage B52s with the most primitive weapons at high altitudes in one of the grand campaign scenarios and I was wondering if such things were addressed in the patch or if it is even a major issue regarding balance. We all know the outcome of the conflict but like many WWII scenarios the Axis need a chance in order to provide proper balance and enjoyment.

I will also be sure to follow your recommendation on the tutorial as well. After reading the whats new for 3.4 pdf I see there are a great many changes. I guess I will learn the mechanics as is and cross that bridge when I get there.

Thanks again for your help and support.

Best regards,

LRRP67

[Boonierat]

Regarding the patch, I was asking Boonierat about it because after doing a search on "Vietnam" in the forums I came across a gentlemens post who mentioned something about VC and NVA units being able to hit and damage B52s with the most primitive weapons at high altitudes in one of the grand campaign scenarios and I was wondering if such things were addressed in the patch or if it is even a major issue regarding balance.

I've addressed this issue in my scenarios by removing AA values from most NVA/VC equipments, but I don't know if it will be fixed in 3.4.

[LRRP67]

Good morning Boonierat,

That is great to hear. Once again I have absolutely no idea if that was a game breaking issue or altered the balance or not. I am still plugging along with my notes/sheets at the moment but I have come to the conclusion that after I have finished the reading and explore the tutorial, I will start with your scenarios due to the length being a little shorter than a couple of the grand campaigns. I hope you continue with your work on the rest of them as I can see them playing out as a variation of a grand campaign. I read most of the introductory reading on them and they sound great!

LRRP67

[Boonierat]

ORIGINAL: LRRP67
Once again I have absolutely no idea if that was a game breaking issue or altered the balance or not.

Nothing game breaking, just annoying to see BUFFs getting shot down by .51 cal HMGs

[LRRP67]

Agreed. I think the original poster had quoted bows and arrows (not sure if he was kidding or not) but either way it was a little discouraging. Especially considering the altitude those things fly at.

[Panama]

It would seem that all bombers are lumped in with dual role aircraft like the A-20 or B-25. They can be used as ground attack or high level bombers. I don't think the game has any way to tell how you are using the aircraft since the air side of the game is rather abstract.

What is needed is an additional air mission, high altitude bombardment not opposable by low level AAA. What's really strange is that there is a tick box in the equipment db for high altitude aircraft. If low level AAA can fire at them why bother with that tick box?

[LRRP67]

Oh I did not know that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I know every game has there own built in mechanics and such. As long as I am aware of all the little things and they do not pose a game breaking advantage/disadvantage then I certainly can live with it. I thought I saw mention in the manual regarding HI/LOW alt Anti Air abilities but I guess if the game confuses a B52 for an A1 Sky Raider than it does not really matter much. I guess I will have to be a little cautious with aircraft.



LRRP67

[Panama]

Well, this is mere speculation on my part from game observations. Bob Cross or Ralph probably have a definative answer.

[LRRP67]

Ah. No worries. I am still just soaking up the information and have not even entered the game yet other than to have a quick look. It certainly looks like a lot of fun! I will be sure to do my best in gathering as much info on my own first before troubling you veterans.

[larryfulkerson]

If I recall correctly *I* was the gentleman who wrote about VC and or NVA troops who, from ground level mind you, shot down more than one of my B-52's.  Bows and arrows, well, maybe not bows and arrows but it seems to me that 37mm tops out about 15,000 feet or so and the most a ground squad carried with them, so I was told, was 37mm.  I can see a strella shot maybe bringing down a B-52 ( it's doubtful though ) but for the life of me I don't see how it's possible what with all the counter measures B-52's carry ( or did carry during that time period ).  I remember flying in a DC-8 from Travis to Manila on my way to my second tour in SouthEast Asia and out over the pacific somewhere the pilot came on the intercom and informed us that those of us on the left side of the plane could see a cell of B-52's on their way to Vietnam.  He said we were flying at 29,000 feet and I remember looking out my window and way up there in the stratosphere were three B-52's playing follow-the-leader about a mile apart making contrails.  They were just discernable from where I sat so I imagine they were invisible from the ground.  They must have been flying at about 50,000 feet or so at the time.  That's just an educated guess of course...I just don't see how they could be shot down by little more than small arms.

[LRRP67]

Hi Larry,

My apologies if I miss quoted you regarding the type of small arms that were impeding your arclight. All I could recollect at the time of my post was that it seemed a little off and was wondering if it caused major problems in the campaign and if the new patch addressed such issues. Again please forgive me as I am just getting started. I absolutely can not wait to dive into this here in the next day or two once I finish my notes/reading. If you do not mind me asking what unit were you with?