Shock or delibarate?

[BigBadWolf]

How do you determine when to shock attack? what is important to know about it? I can't make up my mind about this, so I usually just go with deliberate, but can't help feeling I'm missing out on something.

[herwin]

My opponent usually goes with a shock attack, but my LCUs tend to have weak firepower. Shock attacks expose you to your opponent's FP before you reach the AP ratio calculation.

[crsutton]

I agree with Herwin, if you got the numbers and better troops then "shock it to them" Too many shock attacks in my campaign for my liking. I would not mind seeing much steeper penalties for failed shock attacks. That might lessen the frequency a bit.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I agree with Herwin, if you got the numbers and better troops then "shock it to them" Too many shock attacks in my campaign for my liking. I would not mind seeing much steeper penalties for failed shock attacks. That might lessen the frequency a bit.

The reason you don't get shock attacks in real life is that a squad LMG can deal with soft targets as fast as they appear on a 50-100 meter frontage.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I agree with Herwin, if you got the numbers and better troops then "shock it to them" Too many shock attacks in my campaign for my liking. I would not mind seeing much steeper penalties for failed shock attacks. That might lessen the frequency a bit.

The reason you don't get shock attacks in real life is that a squad LMG can deal with soft targets as fast as they appear on a 50-100 meter frontage.

I'm not sure the 'shock' attack is synonymous with 'full frontal assault in echelon' that you are describing. Shock attack could refer to tempo of an assault, use of ammunition in quantity, combined arms interdigitation, etc.

[Kitakami]

I generally use deliberate attacks to dislodge enemies from a defensive position, but once I have them on the run, it is one shock attack after the other. Of course... there are exceptions to the rule

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I agree with Herwin, if you got the numbers and better troops then "shock it to them" Too many shock attacks in my campaign for my liking. I would not mind seeing much steeper penalties for failed shock attacks. That might lessen the frequency a bit.

The reason you don't get shock attacks in real life is that a squad LMG can deal with soft targets as fast as they appear on a 50-100 meter frontage.

I'm not sure the 'shock' attack is synonymous with 'full frontal assault in echelon' that you are describing. Shock attack could refer to tempo of an assault, use of ammunition in quantity, combined arms interdigitation, etc.

The USMC took pride in high tempo--it shortened the battle--but I don't think that's shock in the game sense. Shock in the game sense is where you skimp on the base of fire to double the manoeuvre element. In reality, that's fine against untrained troops or when you absolutely must take a bridgehead, but it just degrades your effectiveness against everyone else.

[bigred]

IIRC in calculating game terms a shock attack doubles the attacker AV and also doubles the defensive fire of the defender AV. In ground combat the base attack ratio needed to move a defender off a hex is 2-1.

For the shock attack to work effectively I will ensure I have at least a 1.5 to one advantage showing from previous attacks before I will initiate a shock attack. Some situations where a defender is forted up cause me to hesitate in the use of a shock attack because the shock attack will cause the attackers unit fatigue/distuption to really go up. This is a bad situation when after you make the shock attack and the defender still owns the hex.

If you do a shock attack it is important to drop the kitchen sink on you opponent. Use LBA ground attack, straf, naval bombardment to disrupt the defense as the shock goes in. If the defender has air superiority and can LBA your ground attack you probably will not have a good shock attack result. So the phrase is "Combined arms w/total air superiority".

[Feltan]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I'm not sure the 'shock' attack is synonymous with 'full frontal assault in echelon' that you are describing. Shock attack could refer to tempo of an assault, use of ammunition in quantity, combined arms interdigitation, etc.

Oh no!

Don't ruin my mental image like this!

A Shock attack is a full frontal assault, with a bunch of screaming, samuri sword wielding, hell bent for leather, greanade throwing, fixed bayonets, do or die, take no prisoners, no quarter asked, maniacs at a full running charge.

I really don't want it any more complicated than this for my simple brain.

Regards,
Feltan

[BigBadWolf]

ORIGINAL: Feltan

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I'm not sure the 'shock' attack is synonymous with 'full frontal assault in echelon' that you are describing. Shock attack could refer to tempo of an assault, use of ammunition in quantity, combined arms interdigitation, etc.

Oh no!

Don't ruin my mental image like this!

A Shock attack is a full frontal assault, with a bunch of screaming, samuri sword wielding, hell bent for leather, greanade throwing, fixed bayonets, do or die, take no prisoners, no quarter asked, maniacs at a full running charge.

I really don't want it any more complicated than this for my simple brain.

Regards,
Feltan

Flamethrowers, mate, don't forget flamethrowers. You got to have flamethrowers for shock attack. [8D]

Imagine a Samurai at full charge, with katana in one hand and a flamethrower in other, ready to die for the Emperor and take few dozens of gaijins with him as he does. Now, that's shock and awe [:D]

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

ORIGINAL: Feltan

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I'm not sure the 'shock' attack is synonymous with 'full frontal assault in echelon' that you are describing. Shock attack could refer to tempo of an assault, use of ammunition in quantity, combined arms interdigitation, etc.

Oh no!

Don't ruin my mental image like this!

A Shock attack is a full frontal assault, with a bunch of screaming, samuri sword wielding, hell bent for leather, greanade throwing, fixed bayonets, do or die, take no prisoners, no quarter asked, maniacs at a full running charge.

I really don't want it any more complicated than this for my simple brain.

Regards,
Feltan

Flamethrowers, mate, don't forget flamethrowers. You got to have flamethrowers for shock attack. [8D]

Imagine a Samurai at full charge, with katana in one hand and a flamethrower in other, ready to die for the Emperor and take few dozens of gaijins with him as he does. Now, that's shock and awe [:D]

Imagine what an MG firing tracer will do to those samurai!

[AbeSimpson]

Bouncing off?? [:D]

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

How do you determine when to shock attack? what is important to know about it? I can't make up my mind about this, so I usually just go with deliberate, but can't help feeling I'm missing out on something.

I will do deliberate attacks until I see enemy assault values significantly dropping. And then it's time for a shock attack...

[dr.hal]

I would suspect that shock attack is very seldom worth the risk, for if it fails to really throw your enemy into a tailspin, it leaves your forces in a very vulnerable state indeed....

[LoBaron]

It a good method to drop forts if you havent got many engineers to play with.
And its helpful for other occational 2:1s when you need em.

But it was tuned down thankfully so that it really depends on AV/troop quality/leader exp/relative firepower... when to use what.

Shock attack on first day only if your recon is really really nice.

As has been said by other posters already, a shock attack often needs all the help it can get, so if it can drop a bomb it flies and in case it
can fire a naval gun it sets sail if the hex is coastal. [;)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

How do you determine when to shock attack? what is important to know about it? I can't make up my mind about this, so I usually just go with deliberate, but can't help feeling I'm missing out on something.

I will do deliberate attacks until I see enemy assault values significantly dropping. And then it's time for a shock attack...

This is usually the way I handle it too.

[VSWG]

I see no reason why not to shock attack most of the time - sadly.

I think most people see the word "shock" and immediately think "OMG, this will be carnage!", but in the game you suffer only slightly higher casualties, and gain a massive advantage (twice the AV!!). Only when I know that the opposing troops have a LOT more firepower than my troops, I refrain from shock attacks.  I wish this would be different, though.