Da Big Babes and Subs

[vicberg]

Can someone tell me what has changed with subs and ASW in Da Big Babes. I'm 13 turns into a pbem game and past the first couple of turns, subs have racked the most kills. In addition, multiple ASW Tfs (with ASW support search planes) have failed to locate subs and attack. A couple of turns, I would attribute to luck. 13 turns, a pattern. If nothing fundamentally has changed, then I'll chalk it up to luck. But I can't find any definitive post that lists changes and/or possible impacts.

[oldman45]

The only real changes i can think of is how the subs fire, the devs changed the tube set up. Early was asw was poor but it gets better over time.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: vicberg
Can someone tell me what has changed with subs and ASW in Da Big Babes. I'm 13 turns into a pbem game and past the first couple of turns, subs have racked the most kills. In addition, multiple ASW Tfs (with ASW support search planes) have failed to locate subs and attack. A couple of turns, I would attribute to luck. 13 turns, a pattern. If nothing fundamentally has changed, then I'll chalk it up to luck. But I can't find any definitive post that lists changes and/or possible impacts.

Oldman pretty much has it. Nothing has fundamentally changed. Babes uses the same exe as stock.

Sub tubes were split up; instead of one weapon line of 4 or 6 ‘bow tubes’ it would be split into 2 or 3 weapon lines of 2 ‘bow tubes’ each. Subs can then shoot one weapon line (2 torpedoes) at smaller targets, instead of having to shoot a 6 torpedo weapon line. This allows a sub to remain on station longer without exhausting its ‘ammo’, and gives it the opportunity of firing at more targets. This has now been incorporated into the stock scenario databases.

For ASW, the ‘depth’ of some DCs (and the ‘depth’ of some subs) and the ‘Num’ of some DC launchers, and the ‘Ammo’ available for some DC Devices were adjusted to make things work more smoothly. Nothing was done to anything having an intro date before sometime in late 1942.

Probability of locating and probability of attacking subs is a function of the Detect and ASW routines of the code. It is the same for every scenario, whether stock or mod.

[Pratzen]

Don't be silly. Subs are overpowered in all scenarios and mods.

[Bradley7735]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Sub tubes were split up; instead of one weapon line of 4 or 6 ‘bow tubes’ it would be split into 2 or 3 weapon lines of 2 ‘bow tubes’ each. Subs can then shoot one weapon line (2 torpedoes) at smaller targets, instead of having to shoot a 6 torpedo weapon line. This allows a sub to remain on station longer without exhausting its ‘ammo’, and gives it the opportunity of firing at more targets. This has now been incorporated into the stock scenario databases.

Hi John,

Thanks for the informative post. Can you answer a 2nd question for me? I love the idea of split tubes to conserve ammo when attacking small targets. But, lets say USS Bowfin is lining up on IJN Zuikaku. Will she shoot 2 torps at her? Or is there code that has her shoot a full load (6) when attacking something big? Will she shoot 4 torps at a CA, for example? If there is code for big, medium and small targets, I assume there's some randomness associated with it as well. (sometimes a full 6 torps at a capital ship, but randomness may make it 2 or 4 on occasion.)

Sorry, I think that was more than one question.

Thanks, Brad

[witpqs]

I'm not John, but I know most of that answer! [:D]

They will fire a full salvo at big targets. I'm not sure if there's any 'medium' size, though.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm not John, but I know most of that answer! [:D]

They will fire a full salvo at big targets. I'm not sure if there's any 'medium' size, though.

There is. A sub will fire the "appropriate" number of torpedoes at each target, limited by the split of the tubes.

Appropriate is determined by the sub skipper's idea of what kind of target (including fog of war). As always, there is some random chance. And the fog of war can be important. A freighter that is mistaken for a carrier will get a carrier's worth of torpedoes.

Within these parameters, the code will determine a number of torpedoes to fire at each target. Minimum is one, maximum is all, any variation in between is possible. It will then attempt to find the number of tube slots that bear to fire this number. If necessary, it will over shoot. That is, if it wants to shoot three torpedoes but it's selection is limited to 2 tubes/ 2 tubes/ 2 tubes; it will fire four. It it wants to fire three and the tubes are defined as 2/2/1/1, it will fire three. Remember: that bear. All forward or all aft - forward preferred but selected with some random.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


There is. A sub will fire the "appropriate" number of torpedoes at each target, limited by the split of the tubes.

I've been playing an AI game with split tubes for about four months now, and I can confirm that they are a wonderful innovation. Much closer to historical time-on-station, less time in transit. Subs being on station, even when they don't sink their target, also add to their historical role as intel gatherers, a role not present when they spent 75% of their life transiting to and fro for reloads in the non-split world.

Now that the split-tube mods are official and the Cone of Silence on them has been lifted, I just want to say that those who bewail Allied sub results should like the changes.

[Tijanski]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I'm not John, but I know most of that answer! [:D]

They will fire a full salvo at big targets. I'm not sure if there's any 'medium' size, though.

There is. A sub will fire the "appropriate" number of torpedoes at each target, limited by the split of the tubes.

Appropriate is determined by the sub skipper's idea of what kind of target (including fog of war). As always, there is some random chance. And the fog of war can be important. A freighter that is mistaken for a carrier will get a carrier's worth of torpedoes.

Within these parameters, the code will determine a number of torpedoes to fire at each target. Minimum is one, maximum is all, any variation in between is possible. It will then attempt to find the number of tube slots that bear to fire this number. If necessary, it will over shoot. That is, if it wants to shoot three torpedoes but it's selection is limited to 2 tubes/ 2 tubes/ 2 tubes; it will fire four. It it wants to fire three and the tubes are defined as 2/2/1/1, it will fire three. Remember: that bear. All forward or all aft - forward preferred but selected with some random.

so there is a chance the wrong end could be pointing at the target? or an end that is out of reloads?

<edit> Please do not misunderstand, I have no critical intent. I am merely curious. The wealth of detail in this game never ceases to amaze me. If this were the case, I would not be surprised. <edit>

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

And the fog of war can be important. A freighter that is mistaken for a carrier will get a carrier's worth of torpedoes.

Awesome! [8D]

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Tijanski

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I'm not John, but I know most of that answer! [:D]

They will fire a full salvo at big targets. I'm not sure if there's any 'medium' size, though.

There is. A sub will fire the "appropriate" number of torpedoes at each target, limited by the split of the tubes.

Appropriate is determined by the sub skipper's idea of what kind of target (including fog of war). As always, there is some random chance. And the fog of war can be important. A freighter that is mistaken for a carrier will get a carrier's worth of torpedoes.

Within these parameters, the code will determine a number of torpedoes to fire at each target. Minimum is one, maximum is all, any variation in between is possible. It will then attempt to find the number of tube slots that bear to fire this number. If necessary, it will over shoot. That is, if it wants to shoot three torpedoes but it's selection is limited to 2 tubes/ 2 tubes/ 2 tubes; it will fire four. It it wants to fire three and the tubes are defined as 2/2/1/1, it will fire three. Remember: that bear. All forward or all aft - forward preferred but selected with some random.

so there is a chance the wrong end could be pointing at the target? or an end that is out of reloads?

<edit> Please do not misunderstand, I have no critical intent. I am merely curious. The wealth of detail in this game never ceases to amaze me. If this were the case, I would not be surprised. <edit>

All "facings" in the game are determined randomly. It's no where near possible for such tactical issues to be calculated accurately. Everything from "Crossing the T" to which end of the sub is pointed where is determined randomly from probabilities. For a sub it will usually be forward, could be aft. Ammo is considered.

[Bradley7735]

Thanks Don and John! I love the detail. You guys do so much for this little community.