Final Thoughts - Utah to Rhine and more

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Nov 30, 2000 2:01 am

A Pacific campaign is next on the list, Krull.

Pers, I would encourage you to go ahead with it. I don't know when or even if Bryan is going to revise his campaign.

I think, if you have the urge, you should proceed. Sea Lion is looking good guys. I've seen David's first map and it is impressive.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Nov 30, 2000 2:02 am

Securitas, those are all great ideas. I've extracted them and saved them in a text file for future reference. Nice!

WB

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Dave_R · Post by **Dave_R** » Thu Nov 30, 2000 3:31 am

And any info at all on Burma would be much appreciated. Can it be sent via e-mail. If so, pass it on, Dave, unless you are going to do it.

I'll get the info to you as soon as I can get it off the old puter Bill, which unfortunatly has now died!
I did start onm this canpaign myself. Called it 'On the road to Mandalay' but time constraints have slowed it down to a crawl, as well as it being on the old dead puter too. Once I can find away of getting onto the new one, I'll send it all to if you want it.

Did either of you finish the Utah-Rhine campaign?

Still looking forward to starting it Bill. At this moment I'm still struggling with The Heros's of the Motherland! <grins>
Wild Bill

[/B][/QUOTE]

Dave_R · Post by **Dave_R** » Thu Nov 30, 2000 4:59 am

Bill.
How's this for something completely different!

The allies are beaten. London and Moscow ring to the sound of jackboots stomping in their streets. America has withrawn it's mauled forces into the defence of the Union.

General Rommal is tasked with bringing what is left of the British Empire in India under German control.

All goes well to start with, then one day German forces meet with their allies the Japanese.

Friendship leads to political disagreement over who should 'own' india, tension rises, old friendships soon forgotten. Soon india finds itself as the prize and battlefield for the two new superpowers!

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 5:07 am

just a few ideas:

Germany: Kursk
Germany: Barbarosa
URSS: From 1944 Soviet summer offensive to Berlin
UK: Operation Good Wood

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 5:09 am

Originally posted by Dave_R:
Bill.
How's this for something completely different!

The allies are beaten. London and Moscow ring to the sound of jackboots stomping in their streets. America has withrawn it's mauled forces into the defence of the Union.

General Rommal is tasked with bringing what is left of the British Empire in India under German control.

All goes well to start with, then one day German forces meet with their allies the Japanese.

Friendship leads to political disagreement over who should 'own' india, tension rises, old friendships soon forgotten. Soon india finds itself as the prize and battlefield for the two new superpowers!

I would to see like one of those!

I know that this would sound very unpopular here but... what about a US vs USRR campaign but from Soviet side this time?

Germany vs Japan?

Best regards

BruceAZ_MatrixForum · Post by **BruceAZ_MatrixForum** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 8:24 am

WB: I liked the campaign, especially your maps and historical markings. It was tough and some scens I had to play more than once. Good job with the intro and sounds.

I have been working on a SPWAW Guadalcanal Campaign (Jap vs USMC)for 6 months and should be done soon. After my friends and I finish play editing, I will share it with all on the net. I am not sure many will like a jungle campaign because it lacks your fast-moving tank warfare that many love. This is a real "leg" campaign and fast-moving INFANTRY rules supreme! Most times where I have purchased tank/truck units they get bogged down in the jungle or mud.

This is a true infantry campaign where battlelines are critical and your best weapon is a Forward Observer with a battery of 105's in support. Most scens are limited to 12-16 turns with med-to large maps. All are historically based with above average (I think so) maps.

To give my friends (we are all ex-military types but new recruits to Matrix) a different perspec, we rarely open with known objectives and in one scen you actually have to hunt them. Maintaining a mobile, quick moving reief force is critical as many times the unexpected happens which is what makes war-gaming interesting.

You did a great job on your campaign! I can't wait to see your next effort.

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"0311, Top, just 0311..."

DownUnder · Post by **DownUnder** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:55 am

I've always wanted to see a hypothetical on how Japan would have gone about the invasion of Australia.

It would certainly use a lot of terrain types! If you came in from the far north west you would very quickly have deserts (both mountain and flat), then flat plains. Come from the North East and you have near enough to Jungle mountains. Do the more main stream hypothetical mid-east coast invasion and you have a lot of coastal semi-rugged hills terrain that very quickly (30 to 70km) turns into moutnains.

Anyway you come at it you are in for a fight, either against tenacious Australians or the elements!

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regards from down under!

degen · Post by **degen** » Sat Dec 02, 2000 11:37 am

Originally posted by Securitas:
[7)Operation Spring Awakening (Lake Balaton region/Budapest 1945) (German Perspective)

[/B]

I've also been thinking about the battle for Budapest as a potential campaign. One version could start with the early attempts to block the Russians on the outskirts of the city, followed by holding actions and counterattacks by the Axis forces. There was quite a variety of units in Budapest on the Axis side and the campaign could be designed to reflect this variety in the support units.

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"I would have much rather that he had given me one more division" - Rommel after receiving his field marshall baton

Pillbox · Post by **Pillbox** » Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:41 pm

BruceAZ, that sounds fantastic! Keep us..er .. "posted"

Pantherblaster · Post by **Pantherblaster** » Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:29 am

Hi Bill,

well, I really like the U to the R campaign so far (I've got 31 points now and am far into germany) but, the further you get into the campaign the more veteran your own troops are going to get while the opposition does get stronger but only pretty marginally (atleast that's the way I see it), they, the germans, are getting better vehicles and troops (especially during the bulge). The problem, I think, is that their numbers are still a bit too low to SERIOUSLY threaten the US from at the very least getting a draw, certainly if, as I mentioned before, the US experience is going up.
So, once in 3 or 4 battles you really should have a battle that REALLY wears down a player (bocage like), so that he has the job of constantely buying (relatively large amounts) of new units to replace the KIA-ones, leaving less space to upgrade units making it through safe, instead of massively upgrading existing ones that safely made it through so far.
you could increase the german numbers, their equipment (higher standard), the terrain and the weather (slowing down the max. rate of advance), or seriously increase the german experiene (more than +10%)to represent elite or other highly regarded battle formations.
Also the use of para airdrops should either be restricted to a much smaller number of scenarios or the german should be better positioned and equipped to deal with them(second-line troops behind the main lines, barricades, patrolling vehicles, flak emplacements shooting the bits out of the, just landed para's. This should really be done to limit the impact they can make on a battle (I use and airdrop them pretty much always if their is an meeting engagement, advance or assault mission).

The previously mentioned experience increase brings me to a question though, how could it be that the germans have such a low experience, leadership and morale figures compared to especially the US army ones (USMC I figure should be quite wright). Ok, so the germans used landstorm and other not so superior kind of troops at the front But, that was only from 1944 and on (as far as I know, I could be mistaken though). And that argument can be countered with th fact that the germans had build up a lot more experience during the first years of the war, while the USA wasn't even involved yet. German officers were also known for their tactical competence (more than US army officers as far as I kwow, again I could be mistaken), while the morale of the german troops remained high among large parts of their armed forces, even during the latest half year of the war (that I do know for sure). So, how could these US army numbers be so superior to the german ones? I'm really wandering about this, please, help me out of my misery AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!
I love this game,
PANTHERBLASTER

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Dec 03, 2000 7:28 am

Good going PB. Some thoughts.

When I design a campaign, I try to keep the whole spectrum of the SPWAW gaming community in mind. That means making victories attainable, but difficult. I could make them harder, but then a large number would give up in frustration.

I could make them easier, but then those hardcore gamers like you would get bored.

So, what to do? Try to strike a happy medium.

Now to numbers. Actually, I did try to incorporate that idea, an occasional real blood-letting scenario to keep the Allied player honest and sober. You are just too good.

And I did raise the numbers on the German side, considerably. You should have seen them before I did

!

I've tinkered with the numbers of most of the units, except your core forces, of course. I can't touch those.

In a long campaign human player forces that survive and attain kills in battle after battle become in reality super-human. I can't change that.

Your experience has been better than most, and I attribute that to your skills in commanding in SPWAW.

One of these days, I am going to do a "hard-core" campaign for you die-hards, and then watch you bleed

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sun Dec 03, 2000 8:49 am

I believe that campaigns are most challenging when the human player does most of the advancing/assaulting because the AI is better when defending than attacking. Also, it seems to me that 1 month per battle is the "ideal" because unit experience increases and replacements seem to fit SPWaW best that way.

Some possibilities that intrigue me:

NZ Division in Italy
USMC Tarawa-Okinawa
Grossdeutchland Division
1SSF Brigade (US/Canadian Special Forces)
2nd Free French Armored Division
5th Guards Tank Army
Manstein's "Lost Victories"

Paco · Post by **Paco** » Sun Dec 03, 2000 11:07 pm

Hey,

Congrats on an awesome campaign! I'm not finsished with it yet, but I've come far into Germany (up for the five point battle). Im doing well so far with 6 decisive, 6 marginal and a draw. After reading Pantherblasters post I must agree on some points and disagree on others. The campaign is not too though nor too easy. It's just about right. I don't think that the US outnumber the Germans at all since I've found myself outnumbered at most battles. Also, I do not think that there's too much room for upgrades. Maybe I'm risking too much of my force to win a battle, but during the whole campaign I've only been able to upgrade two units. And about the experience issue: In the last months of the war, a lot of the german forces where composed of soldiers under 20 years old (due to the lack of grown men), many were 12-15. As you can figure many of these boys had no military training to speak of. Morale was hardly high anywere outside of hitler's bunker.

I also have some ideas for improvements:
The briefings (and maybe debriefings) should in my opinion contain more information about what kind of german force your up against and what artillery support you have, because this must (?) have been known to high command. You have included some of this information in certain scenarios of the campaign but far from all. You really like to know wheter your supposed to buy yourself a howitzer battery or if there's already some for you to use.

That's all... keep up the good work!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Dec 03, 2000 11:15 pm

Very well stated, Paco. I would agree with you.

By way of explanation, the amount of writing space in the text is EXTREMELY limited, allowing for about a medium sized paragraph.

I lobbied strongly to change that, but it was not accomplished. Thus the campaign designer is forced to try to give a historical flavor to what is happening and a few hints as to what might be needed.

Say too much and you give it all away. Say too little and you leave the player in the lurch. Trying to fit it all into that cramped space is almost as hard as designing the battle.

I wish we could do as you recommend. I really do.

Glad you have enjoyed the campaign. Does it seem too long to you?

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

kao16 · Post by **kao16** » Sun Dec 03, 2000 11:32 pm

I went into U2R without adjusting preferences - should I have "Reduced Squads" ON (default) or OFF (I ask, remembering that it should be OFF for designed Senarios but not sure about designed Campaigns)?

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Dec 03, 2000 11:40 pm

I designed it with it off, Kao, but you feel free to adjust at whatever is best for you.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Paco · Post by **Paco** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 2:19 am

About campaign length: I'd say the longer the better, while not getting extreme. The Utah-Rhine campaign is by far longer than I first thought, which I found very good.

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 2:34 am

I just finished U2R, and man, am I tired!

WB, without sounding like I'm trying to blow smoke up your flak vest, I have to say that this may be one of the best campaigns I've played in the SP series. I lost count of the times where I thought, "ok, I've got this situation under control", only to find yet another <GD> Panther poking its ugly snout at me.

Game play was challenging, but balanced and fair. Unlike other campaigns, I never felt that AI won 'cuz it was cheating. The times I got my butt kicked were entirely my own fault.

What would I like to see? Hypothetical postwar U.S./British/French vs. Russian matchups. Someone mentioned a German vs. Japanese postwar fight. Now, that would be pretty darn cool.

Of course, I would like to see more campaigns in general. I greatly prefer campaigns over one game scenarios. I like the continuity and history. Few things make you feel more in the game than when a cherished AT team, squad, or tank dies valiantly.

Now then...my semester projects are calling and Dune is on SciFi tonight. I'll be putting the wars on hold until after the semester. (Yeah, right!)

Lou

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 2:39 am

Iperceive your comments and congratulatory and encouraging, Lou. And I thank you. Like most of us, encouragement is a great incentive to try harder. It is much appreciated.

In the light of your suggestion, I should let you know that the next campaign is indeed a hypothetical one, US vs USSR in a confrontation, April-May, 1945 in Central Germany in the Hannover-Elbe River area.

Testers are working hard on it even now and it should be ready before the HOlidays.

I'm thrilled you've enjoyed U2R and I hope you will get equal (or more)pleasure from the others.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games