IJ production mistakes

[bigred]

the Ki61 looks to come into the game around feb43. If I put some 30r/d factories into KI61 I figure I might get lucky and see the plane in december43.

The manipulation of some factories dedicated to the ki61, then stop production and convert factory to ki61d model would be cool I think.

[bigred]

Now the Ki100 looks even better w/ the service rating of one. Does anyone have a feel for this fightr in combat? So now I have an exceleration plan.

[bigred]

To get to the Ki100 and bring it in two years early I must begin again w/ baby steps to set up my model production run.
1. Find 3 unused factories w/ a low capacity. I understand conversion is 10x expensive over expansion. IIRC expansion is 100 supply per point and conversion is 1000 supply per point.
Example: say I find 3 factories w/ 5 production. So to convert these factories to ki61 research each factory conversion would cost 5000 supply, 500hi and 500man?.. times 3x.


So in 5 days I have these 3 factories converted and working on the ki61 each factory will be increased by 28 R/D per month for a total of 99 r/d points per month. But these are R/D on an unproven frame.
So in december42 the Ki61 a arrives. But I want the Ki61d w/ a 2 service rating 4/44and then the ki100 that arrives in 10/44.

So in Jan 43 I have 3 tony factories that can either
1. Produce 100 planes per month or
2. Turn off production and change the plane type to the ki61d and VOLA
3. I get 100 R/d points per month for the ki61d.
4. So If the ki61d comes in 16 months after jan43 at 100 points per month reduction then I should be able to bring the plane in 8 months early or sept 43.
5. If I put 200 r/d points on the ki61d then I might see the tony in 5/43???
6. But do I want the ki61d in massive numbers(yes!!!) and does it realy upgrade to the
ki100?(forum search)
7. And what to do w/ those oscar factories that have held the front line???hummmm.

[John 3rd]

Here is where my Scen 70 Fighter Research currently sits as compared to BigRed:

[John 3rd]

Here are all the warships currently being built in the yards. The hope is for 5 CVs to be completed in 1943. If I can do better then GREAT, however, 3 Sho-Kai and 2 Unryu should keep the balance through the middle year of the fight.

[John 3rd]

I'll stop and toss out whatever you'd like BigRed.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: bigred

I must admit the reason I started the thread was to be able to go back and reference issues. More like an on line library. So from time to time I am pulling up issues from page 7 for example because now I can feel the power of my air production in the field as well as time to consider future options.

Very important to get the 3 x30 oscar factories going. I am 3 months late w/ this issue as I did not know to keep 10000 supply at the base. again the problem w/ the oscar is the bad army development tree.

I do request Mike to explain why the Ki100 is included as part of the Ki61 tree when tracker does not indicate this upgrade possiblity.

That's simple. I probably made a mistake. [;)] [:'(]

[bigred]

Too bad, I was half way finished w. army late game production. That really hurts.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Here are all the warships currently being built in the yards. The hope is for 5 CVs to be completed in 1943. If I can do better then GREAT, however, 3 Sho-Kai and 2 Unryu should keep the balance through the middle year of the fight.

I am not accelerating my ships because of tactical consideration. This is increasing my HI in a indirect fashion.

[bigred]

tm.asp?m=2480662&mpage=3&key=ki100%2Ctony

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Welcome to reality. Except for the "because Altitude is the ONLY thing that matters..." nonsense. I can assure you it isn't, but by the time the P-47s and P-51s and Corsairs Oh My! begin to appear it might as well, because so many of the other intangibles also belong to the allies. Feel free to harp on altitude but is not the ONLY thing that matters. You clearly make this statement out of pure ignorance of the code. Not your fault, but let's be clear that you do not have a whit's knowledge of the inner workings of the game.

That said, Altitude advantage, and even more so the Higher performance of one aircraft over another AT altitude is key to any engagement. Unfortunately for the IJ player he has to deal with the decisions of the Real world aircraft designers at Mitsubishi and Nakijima, while the allied player can bask in the glow from North American, Vought, Republic and Grumman...

The simple fact is that the Allies have a greater preponderance of BETTER aircraft. Get used to it.

Ian,

Just as an example, in my PBM we started with no altitude limit, eventually went to 30,000 and more recently to 25,000. The rationale is that it's unrealistic for sweeps and CAPs to be set any higher and - take a breath - altitude advantage is over-rated in the engine. I've been feeling that the aircrafts' own limits are fine (plane got a ceiling of 36,000? Use it if you like!), but there is a lot of complaining on the forums about altitude. Many folks have the impression that altitude is a problem.

You have made comments/explanations in the past that were enormously helpful is clearing up mysteries/misunderstandings on aspects of the air game. Would you consider making a post in the main AE forum about altitude in combat, altitude settings, and any other altitude issues you deem appropriate? It would be most welcome and appreciated.

What people are lamenting about altitude is the same as what IJ pilots were lamenting in 1944. "we can't compete with new Allied designs above 20k'". It's the way it was. The Allies held the high ground and if the Japanese tried to one up the P-47s, P-38s, and USN Corsairs and Hellcats, they were only in positions of advantage for a short time before superior superchargers and greater Power and larger propellers (not to mention superior numbers and tactics) neutralized those initial advantages. Altitude (or energy surplus) is the great equalizer.

Some people complain that Sweeps at 25k' should not engage a CAP at 10k' because they are SO FAR APART. They are SO much higher...this is ludicrous. even a 20k' altitude delta is only a little over 3 miles. If you are looking for the bad guy and you know he is likely somewhere below you, you'll see him. Getting a tally of a single fighter a 10 miles is doable for a trained 20/15 or 20/20 eyeball. 3 miles, or even 4 for arguments sake is no problem. I reject this line of thought as being ignorant of reality. The ONLY validity it has is where weather (ie. layered cloud below the sweep) would obstruct tallies. Guess what Weather as a modifier of DLs is already in there.

The thing with the Altitude bands is that is clearly defines where one aircraft is able to perform at it's greatest advantage. When your mainline fighter begins to go up against your opponents newest fighter that benefits from a higher/better performance you are losing. You need to do something about it. Here is a short list

1. Compensate for the qualitative disadvantage with Quantitative superiority. Take the altitude hit and make him come down to you. It is going to hurt. It's supposed to. but the altitude advantage is a short-lived 1st round bonus. If you can survive with any numbers and whittle his smaller force down, you can retain aerial superiority. But there is a tipping point. Be prepared to make sacrifices. And be prepared to set a time limit for which this concentration of force will have to achieve a victory. When it becomes clear that your opponent is willing to force the issue and you quantitative edge is dulling it's time to admit defeat and look to redefine the fight. Pull back, cut losses and plan your second line of defense.

2. Avoid the fight until you can marshal your forces with either overwhleming material and numerical superiority, or you begin to produce a competitive(notice I did not say superior as that may not be an option Think Sherman tank vs. Tiger tank) fighter design, especially when combined with a cadre of elite pilots that you have preserved from your early victories. It can be a rock-scissors-paper equation where you have Aircraft capability- Pilot EXP - Numerical superiority. If you can win 2 out of 3 in this you stand a chance of winning, until the balance shifts to your opponent.

3. Personally, regardless of altitude bonus I would fly my fighters where they are most effective and try to fill them with competent pilots if I want to have any hope. As the IJ player you WILL reach a point where you are on the back side of the technology/performance curve, and you need to have coddled your air forces such that they are at their healthiest when the grind starts. Then be realistic about your goals.

Everyone thinks of a game in terms of win or lose. What many people who play AE lose sight of is how each side defines win or lose.

For that allies, you lose if you haven't taken territory on a timeline equal too or later than the RL commanders. You are winning if you are ahead of schedule.

For the IJ player you are losing if you relinquish territory on a timeline ahead of reality and you are winning if you can inflict damaging losses to the Allied player on a scale greater than was done in RL.

THAT is how I measure success.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: bigred

Too bad, I was half way finished w. army late game production. That really hurts.

I'm not sure the Ki-61-II KAI doesn't upgrade to the Ki-100. I'll check on that tonight.

[bigred]

6jun42(midway)

1. I cut naval build points by 305.
2. I cut arms points by 300.
3. I increase r/d on the tony ki61a from 2 to 100. Plan to stop production of this model when it comes available 12/42 and then change r/d to the ki61d. If 100points per month drops arrival time by 1 month then the ki61d model, available in 4/44 should arrive 8/43, or in plain speak 1/2 the development time.
4. Converted the Hickory r/d plane to ki61a.
5. Converted the ki61c r/d to the ki61a.
6. I kept the merchies producing because the tracker chart said I was not producing enough for the whole game.
7. the 12th army (3division) stack got its a-- kicked in china a few turns ago. I figure the units ran out of supply as the status for supply column was all in red. So I started sending return supply on the resource convoys to china and manchuria.
Also put the units to rest status and they regained supply quickly.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: bigred

6jun42(midway)

1. I cut naval build points by 305.
2. I cut arms points by (HOW much?)

IF it were a choice Merchant points are a better cut ... Naval you'll need eventually ... I recommended both but with stipulations.

3. I increase r/d on the tony ki61a from 2 to 100. Plan to stop production of this model when it comes available 12/42 and then change r/d to the ki61d. If 100points per month drops arrival time by 1 month then the ki61d model, available in 4/44 should arrive 8/43, or in plain speak 1/2 the development time.
...

Remember once the factory is fully operational as R&D ... you can convert along the upgrade path with no damage to the factory.

[bigred]

To all newbies, I find this post to be of extreme import!!!

Remember once the factory is fully operational as R&D ... you can convert along the upgrade path with no damage to the factory.

To be specific, must I catch the factory at 100% r/d operational to switch it to the ki61d at no cost?

I figure if i miss this then I can still take the operational production plant, stop production of the ki61a, change the plant to ki61d at no cost. Then this plant will be r/d 100 points per month into the ki61d. Am I correct?

And will I need to turn plant production back on after the swich?

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: bigred


To be specific, must I catch the factory at 100% r/d operational to switch it to the ki61d at no cost?

No.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: bigred

To all newbies, I find this post to be of extreme import!!!

Remember once the factory is fully operational as R&D ... you can convert along the upgrade path with no damage to the factory.

To be specific, must I catch the factory at 100% r/d operational to switch it to the ki61d at no cost?

I figure if i miss this then I can still take the operational production plant, stop production of the ki61a, change the plant to ki61d at no cost. Then this plant will be r/d 100 points per month into the ki61d. Am I correct?

And will I need to turn plant production back on after the swich?

Yep must be 100% so that you don't have to wait for the last few factories to repair (which will take a long time)
Well - depends on your R&D setting ... but Realistic OFF allows this ...

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: bigred


To be specific, must I catch the factory at 100% r/d operational to switch it to the ki61d at no cost?

No.

And what is the point of an R&D factory that isn't fully repaired ? Zip ... so I say repair it 100%. .. cause logically getting something repaired that is 3 years away is v.slow ...
[edit]no offence Puhis... I'm tired and got to get some Zzzzz

[Puhis]

Point or not, but there is no cost switching partly repaired R&D factories. [;)]

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

Point or not, but there is no cost switching partly repaired R&D factories. [;)]

What happens if a 100plane per month ki61a factory has produced say 1,2,or 3 planes and then I switch it to 61d? My reading indicates the factory goes into R/D on the ki61d providing 100 research points per month. Net effect is to cut reseach time in half.

And in theory, the same situation applies to the a6m2 and the a6m8!!!
And also to the a6m3 and any plane in this tree.

for example, currently I produce 100 a6m2 per month. the a6m8 arrives at 10/43 iirc.
So if I stopped a6m2 and changed factory to a6m8 then the plane would be available at 1/43.


From a tctical POV it could be dangerous to stop a6m2 production unless
1. you have plenty of saved planes and
2. The game map situation is under control. If the allies are pressing then you could have a problem.

[John 3rd]

The real question in this Mod is what do you want to put on your CVs and what do you invest in of the new Zero-Interceptors for the Land-Based type? There are some serious choices there...