Non allied military ships refueling at my ports.

[Setekh]

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Thanks for all the feedback above.

For the first ROTS update I'll be implementing the following changes in this area:
- add new setting in Empire Policy screen: "Refuel Other Empires Military Ships"
- this setting will determine when military ships of another empire are allowed to refuel at your colonies or bases
- the three available values for this setting will be: when not at war or have trade sanctions (same as currently), when have Free Trade Agreement, when have Mutual Defense Pact or Protectorate
- the default setting here will be "when have Free Trade Agreement"

This setting only applies to military ships - freighters, mining ships, passenger ships, exploration ships and construction ships will all be able to refuel at any colony or base of an empire you are not at war with or have trade sanctions against (as currently). It is important that the civilian economy is not hampered and that trade happens as easily as possible. For example, it would make little sense if a freighter could transport cargo to a spaceport, but not also refuel there.

Note that independent colonies will always refuel military ships of any empire - they are effectively neutral.

Awesome change. Looking forward to the update now (after I buy the expansion tomorrow that is).

[J HG T]

Those changes look great. No more fuelling your armada at my bases mister Dhayuuts-from-other-side-of-the-galaxy! 

[Aures]

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111
Aures: Yes I know all that, thank you for your condescension. It seemed like he was asking if this was a global setting such as a game option which you set for all empires rather than something you change during a game.

I was attempting to lay out the issues explicitly and constructively contribute to the discussion. My apologies if you read a condascending tone into my post but I can assure you it was not written with that intention. I am not a mind reader and I have no way of knowing what you do or do not know except by the contents of your posts. I can hardly be faulted for trying to lay out the issues clearly regardless of what you do or do not know. As it turns out, LoBaron's subsequent post showed he was indeed talking about the same issues I posted about.

No one is to blame, misunderstandings are bound to happen in online discussions. It has now been cleared up but I feel the need to state for the record that I was not trying to talk down to anyone.

[elliotg]

Just to clarify: this setting will apply to all empires, so AI empires will use the default setting in their empire policy (military ships only refuel when have Free Trade Agreement). You are welcome to change *your* empire policy for this setting to whatever you like. [:)]

So this change will mean that you will no longer have fleets or military ships of other empires showing up in your systems when you don't want them - unless they're there on unfriendly terms [;)]

[ehsumrell1]

ORIGINAL: elliotg

So this change will mean that you will no longer have fleets or military ships of other empires showing up in your systems when you don't want them - unless they're there on unfriendly terms [;)]

i.e. SHOOT FIRST..........Shoot again............. THEN ask questions!

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Just to clarify: this setting will apply to all empires, so AI empires will use the default setting in their empire policy (military ships only refuel when have Free Trade Agreement). You are welcome to change *your* empire policy for this setting to whatever you like. [:)]

So this change will mean that you will no longer have fleets or military ships of other empires showing up in your systems when you don't want them - unless they're there on unfriendly terms [;)]

Will we be able to mod the races A.I individual empire policy in future updates?

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

ORIGINAL: elliotg

So this change will mean that you will no longer have fleets or military ships of other empires showing up in your systems when you don't want them - unless they're there on unfriendly terms [;)]

i.e. SHOOT FIRST..........Shoot again............. THEN ask questions!

Or my motto...

IF it moves...shoot it. If it doesn't move...shoot it. If it was moving, you shot it, and now it is not moving...shoot it again! [:D]

[elliotg]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Just to clarify: this setting will apply to all empires, so AI empires will use the default setting in their empire policy (military ships only refuel when have Free Trade Agreement). You are welcome to change *your* empire policy for this setting to whatever you like. [:)]

So this change will mean that you will no longer have fleets or military ships of other empires showing up in your systems when you don't want them - unless they're there on unfriendly terms [;)]

Will we be able to mod the races A.I individual empire policy in future updates?

I think that's a great idea. Won't be in the first update, but will add this in a future patch.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Just to clarify: this setting will apply to all empires, so AI empires will use the default setting in their empire policy (military ships only refuel when have Free Trade Agreement). You are welcome to change *your* empire policy for this setting to whatever you like. [:)]

So this change will mean that you will no longer have fleets or military ships of other empires showing up in your systems when you don't want them - unless they're there on unfriendly terms [;)]

Thank you for elaborating Elliot, and for considering to change the current situation in the first place.

I am sure you have reasons why the set default limit is an FTA and not a Defensive Pact and I am aware this is no democracy. [;)]

Still, personally I´d prefer the default (so also for the AI) trigger for ship refuel a Defensive Pact.

A FTA is an economic treaty and not a strategic one and I don´t believe that such strategic considerations should have an impact on the economic decision to enter a trade agreement with a race.
A Mutual Defensive Pact on the other hand is a strategic treaty and so would be a logical basis for allowing foreign ships to refuel at your bases because of the name alone. Mutual Defense nearly implies
to serve as trigger for fleet refuel.

My point is that forcing the AI to the default FTA setting instead of MDP makes entering a FTA a strategic decision.
Only reason to set FTA by default which comes to my mind at the moment is if the AI uses MDP too rarely.

So I am all for MDP as default. I understand if there are reasons for it to be an FTA but I´d apprechiate if you could hint them because currently I cannot think of
any except issues with the AI handling FTA/MDP.

[forsaken1111]

When it comes down to it though, you are 'trading' hydrogen or caslon gas so I think a FTA is appropriate. You're balking at trading fuel gas to someone while you're okay with trading them all of the other strategic materials required to make new ships?

[LoBaron]

I thought about this too and you got a point.

But the issue with refuelling of fleets is not that they DO refuel (aka "trade" strategic ressources), but that they:

can suck your supply dry in one instant depending on the size of the fleet (which simply is not the case for other strat ressources)

-> IMO a point against FTA because theres a great differerence between a steady flow and one big gulp with major and immediate
consequences. You (and the AI) should be able to benefit from the former without having the economic stability to bear the latter.

enhance their military operational radius without their home empire needing to provide the logistics

-> this is the point that outweights the "strategic ressources" argument IMHO. The decision of an empire to enter such a traty would
be based on military logistics (enhancing the operational radius of the fleet) and strategy (ability to forward deploy forces beyond
the empires borders for an extended period) an because of this the corresponding pact should be of military nature and not of economic one.


Based on the above thats why I´d vote for MDP instead of FTA default, for what it is worth. [;)]

[forsaken1111]

I understand what you're saying, and he did say you could change your own policy (and later the default for other races). This was really the easiest way to implement it in the current iteration of DW.

Later I hope they consider my idea of an expanded trade system where you can actually set limits on certain exports. Then you could limit fuel trading to a certain amount, keeping a strategic reserve for your own ships.