Generals getting killed

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: joey

Based on these numbers, it appears then that the death ratio is statistically set 4 to 8 times too high.

You need to run a lot of test games before making that assertion. One or two games is not enough due to the randomness involved.

[bwheatley]

Yea my 2 cents. i've lost about 18 generals through turn 34. Guderian died..which sucks.

The way i cope with it in my head is that some generals like rommel and the like enjoy leading from the front. So maybe you can tie in the leaders initiative rating into how often they go to the front to check things out and thus are at a higher chance of dieing.

Other then that a low initiative commander should never die unless his hex is bombed by air attack. If he is far from the front i mean.

[Titanwarrior89]

What was Guderian commanding? Was he in direct combat?

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Yea my 2 cents. i've lost about 18 generals through turn 34. Guderian died..which sucks.

The way i cope with it in my head is that some generals like rommel and the like enjoy leading from the front. So maybe you can tie in the leaders initiative rating into how often they go to the front to check things out and thus are at a higher chance of dieing.

Other then that a low initiative commander should never die unless his hex is bombed by air attack. If he is far from the front i mean.

[elmo3]

Think of the HQ unit as being a general location for the activities they perform.  It's certainly possible for a leader to be away from his HQ checking on the front.  The closer the HQ is to the front the more likely it will be for a leader to be killed.  Even leaders farther from the front get killed for various reasons (accidents, air attacks, vengeful husbands, etc).

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

What was Guderian commanding? Was he in direct combat?

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Yea my 2 cents. i've lost about 18 generals through turn 34. Guderian died..which sucks.

The way i cope with it in my head is that some generals like rommel and the like enjoy leading from the front. So maybe you can tie in the leaders initiative rating into how often they go to the front to check things out and thus are at a higher chance of dieing.

Other then that a low initiative commander should never die unless his hex is bombed by air attack. If he is far from the front i mean.

he was commander of a panzer army about 13-15 hexes back. and no air attack. I mean it can happen look at how often rommel went to the front. And almost died as well. but i think that should be based off leader initiative.

[joey]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

ORIGINAL: joey

Based on these numbers, it appears then that the death ratio is statistically set 4 to 8 times too high.

You need to run a lot of test games before making that assertion. One or two games is not enough due to the randomness involved.

No need for any test games. I am speaking of history on the Eastern Front. It is purely a matter of numbers.

[ComradeP]

Of course it isn't a matter of numbers. Due to the extremely variable losses, one person could lose 300 leaders whilst another person could lose just 1. How is that just a matter of numbers?

[Titanwarrior89]

Thank, I was just wondering.

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

What was Guderian commanding? Was he in direct combat?

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Yea my 2 cents. i've lost about 18 generals through turn 34. Guderian died..which sucks.

The way i cope with it in my head is that some generals like rommel and the like enjoy leading from the front. So maybe you can tie in the leaders initiative rating into how often they go to the front to check things out and thus are at a higher chance of dieing.

Other then that a low initiative commander should never die unless his hex is bombed by air attack. If he is far from the front i mean.

he was commander of a panzer army about 13-15 hexes back. and no air attack. I mean it can happen look at how often rommel went to the front. And almost died as well. but i think that should be based off leader initiative.

[Grotius]

Does the game model Hitler executing generals? Just curious.

Also, is there a way to see which enemy generals have been killed? In my recent play of "Minsk," a Russian general died, but the combat report went by so fast that I didn't catch the name. Now I can't find it in the "losses" screen.

[elmo3]

Yes Hitler and Stalin will both order executions as needed to improve morale. [:)]

[notenome]

This could probably be fixed by dividing the chance by rank. By far the most common casualties should be major generals (which oddly Ive never seen die). So if the chance of a general dying is divided by distance from the front, add a second division based on rank (/2 for lt general /4 for gen /8 oberst /16 field marshall) and a multiplier if his hex sees combat. Also it is worth noting that many famous German generals such as Hausser and Rommel almost died (Hausser even lost an eye).

[randallw]

I'm currently on the 4th turn of the big campaign; two generals killed in combat ( one in charge of the airborne corps of the Northwest Front on turn 1, so he was really close to danger, the other of an infantry corps on turn 3 ).
 
Also, Pavlov was arrested and executed.  He will be suffering a virtual death many times over, in computers around the globe.

[vinnie71]

But let's not get carried away with all this 'leading from the front' image that German propoganda liked us to believe. Leaders like Rommel, Guderian, Hausser etc, actually went to vantage points near the front and not in the front. They normally wanted to be at hand with their Luftwaffe coordinators to manage crucial areas, but other than that, they did not really join into battle - it would have been counterproductive. It seems that only Rommel enjoyed personal combat so much that he went up front (like at the seizure of Tobruk). Divisional commanders may have deployed forward (normally with the advanced portion of their HQ) and therefore they were more susceptible to being caught up in a firefight or bombardment. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned the number of general killed in action and the numbers are pretty small considering that the Wehrmacht deployed over 300 divisions for several years and there was quite a turnover of generals due to promotions, reassignments etc.
 
Therefore I believe that the number of deaths for non encircled units should be lessoned a bit since as the Axis at least, it is normal to lose 1 or 2 generals a turn.

[ComradeP]

Axis leader casualties:

German: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=135564

Other Axis: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=145558

Axis losses indeed seem to be too high.

Soviet:

[dwesolick]

ORIGINAL: amatteucci

So I'm amazed at the leaders loss rates some players get. BTW, I presume that German leaders should have a bonus against ending up being executed, or if they do, they should be based on a random basis (maybe after 20 June 1944) since, IIRC, many were shot for conspiracy and treason but no one because of incompetence on the field.

Yeah, that's right. Hitler dismissed generals left and right (and sometimes brought them back again...and again--like Rundstedt), but didn't execute them until after the July 1944 bomb plot. Stalin, on the other hand, executed MANY officers. Most famously, of course, in the pre-war purges when 25k-35k (depending upon source) were murdered. During the war Red Army generals were routinely shot for incompetence (or for just getting on Stalin's nerves...like that one Red Air Force general who told Stalin--to his face---that he was forcing his men to go in the air in "flying coffins"...big mistake).

Anyway, playing as Germans in GC 41 on turn 16 and I've only lost a couple generals killed (one Rumanian and one Luftwaffe) and had a couple dismissed, so the leader "bug" isn't biting me too badly.

[kuancmdr]

If somehow the game continues to kill off the Generals of both sides to excessive levels..

Will the game have enough officers of rank like Colonel and promote them to General or will the game generate generic Generals to cover the losses...?

[turska]

After few less important KIA's like luftwaffe and Rumanians, but now i lost Model. Argh. And he was safely few hex'es behind the front lines.

[Titanwarrior89]

I have lost 5 leaders after turn 18(GC). Two were high level leaders....I like the ideal of leaders losses but needs some adjustment but I am glad that its builted into the system.

[turska]

Couple more turns and i lost my third army commander. (Previously Von Kluge from 4th army and one Rumanian army commander) This time commander of the 6th army wich was some 10 hexes behind the front line.

[Cerion]

Humm, I have lost 7 leaders after turn 15 as german. I believe is a level too high.