Early encirclement plan

[apd1004]

Below is the situation on 7-10-41 (turn 4). The AI has massed 60+ divisions in the Zhitomir-Vinnitsa area, with many of the formations being armor. My plan is to encircle this mass with a direct thrust from Rovno to Kiev in the north as sort of the anvil, with the hammer thrust coming from Kishinev to Kiev via Cherkassy. Another thrust from Gomel to Kiev along the east side of the Pripet Marshes will link up with the other two thrusts at Kiev and seal off the marshes as well.

[roflbinflood]

I doubt thats gonna work.. the ai will probably pull its forces out and assemble behind dnepr. Ive seen the AI pull entire armies out from promising pockets in a single turn as long as there is just one railroad connected to those units. 

[karonagames]

GAIA is very good at "looking over her shoulder". The units behind her southern flank will probably trigger a major pull back.

[apd1004]

I'll actually be pleased if the AI is successful at adjusting like that.

[CharonJr]

I think the marshes south of Gomel might cost too many MPs for your northern thrust, but as I saw in my own game the overall distance can be covered.

But since you are starting from further south than my own thrust it might still work.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that you have to complete the encirclement on the same turn you have started it, otherwise the AI will just move a large number of its forces out of the pocket.

CharonJr

[Klydon]

Not sure there is any need to have Panzer Group 2 drive all the way to Kiev when getting to Chernigov would accomplish what you want to do with the exception of getting Kiev as well, but then your tanks don't have to drive nearly as far. You will need to move a unit up to cut the rail line to the north of Kiev going into the swamps to complete the job however.

Nice plan however.

[apd1004]

Your post for your mega-encirclement is what gave me the idea. I figured I'd try to compartmentalize it somewhat just in case something doesn't go right.

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Not sure there is any need to have Panzer Group 2 drive all the way to Kiev when getting to Chernigov would accomplish what you want to do with the exception of getting Kiev as well, but then your tanks don't have to drive nearly as far. You will need to move a unit up to cut the rail line to the north of Kiev going into the swamps to complete the job however.

Agreed - Kiev is not the objective here, the main goal is for the center and southern thrusts to shake hands somewhere behind the gaggle of Russians. No hurry for the Gomel group to get down to Kiev either, the Russians in the marshes won't be getting out of there very fast as long as I can cut the rail lines.

[Mynok]

Have recon'd the path from your southern panzers to Kiev? Because I doubt it is free of forces. Unless it is, you will never meet up with 6th army there.

Way aggressive. Your northernmost forces will never even get to Chernkhov.

[mmarquo]

In the campaign taking the time to kill masses of Russians does not win any points...it only seems to make the remaining unit individually stronger...it is hard to find the middle ground between eliminating enough to get the job done and eliminating too many and not moving forward quick enough. very addicting. [:)]

[Klydon]

Well, I think he has to go for it. Huge upside to pulling it off. There are at least 10 armored divs in there and at least 3 others he has pocketed elsewhere. 2 Paratrooper brigades are just gravy. Far better to slug it out with them on the west side of the river than giving them a chance to get in behind the river.

I would guess you displace that southern HQ and then drive as wide as possible (maybe 5 hexes wide) up behind and also park divisions next to the rail lines coming over the river. By all means use Zocs up the line, but he should not have enough movement to get away and it looks like you have enough infantry to the east to close up on the west side of this new pocket.

I think you keep Panzer Group 2 up north. If they tried to come down, it would be a thin line and there is a frond you have to push through not to mention their supply lines would suck bad.

Gonna take a bit to clean all that up, but you should be able to keep the Russians from forming a new solid line on the river I would think by getting some bridgeheads at the rail lines on the following turn. Be interested to see what the result is.

[apd1004]

Much to my dismay, the AI did what I was afraid it would do. I'm actually pleasantly surprised it happened because it means the designers put a good effort into the programmed response routines for the computer opponent and I'll need to stay vigilant in the future.

Below is the situation at the base of the southern pincer right before I pressed the end turn button on 7-10-41. I shouldn't have left the gap I left in the circle, but so far the AI hasn't shown much in the way of maneuvering on my forces. I'm sure that each turn the Soviets will gain more and more freedom of movement as they recover from the shock of the initial invasion.



Here's the same situation at the start of the 7-17-41 turn (after my recons). They slipped a single unit in to shut down my corridor, which killed my resupply and thus will delay my movement another week (note the difference in available movement points to the German units inside the pocket compared to those outside). The Soviets have also adjusted somewhat and have attempted to contain the tip of this pincer. The motorized division at the tip of the spear is now in bad shape. I should have seen it coming. Such is war!

[Klydon]

Be interesting to see if you had that as a saved turn and tried it again for giggles.

Some of your units in the pocket can get some help by running airdrop resupply to them. I think the rest will puff up a bit once you get a supply line open to them.

I assume you left Panzer Group 2 up north at this point.

Thanks for posting the results on this.

[apd1004]

Turns out that lone Russian unit that sealed off the pocket was either a false recon report or in such bad shape that it displaced somewhere as soon as I moved a unit next to it, because I didn't need to fight it. So were several of the other units near the pocket closure.

This turn wouldn't have been a good turn to start the encirclement anyway, the panzers are feeling the effects of overextended supply lines up north as well.

This mob of Soviet units along the Dnepr at Mogilev may be a more sensible target for next turn, and could still yield a good quantity of Soviet units.

[randallw]

This would be the first mention i've seen of phantom enemy units.