Early war Soviet Movement penalties

[gingerbread]

It looks like the divide final adjusted MP by 3 (mot) or 2 (non-mot) is not implemented in the game.


14.1.4. JUNE 22, 1941 (AND EARLY WAR MOVEMENT COSTS)

<snip>

Early war Soviet Movement penalties:
During the June 22, 1941 turn, Soviet motorized units have their final adjusted MPs divided
by 3, but never to less than one MP. Soviet non-motorized units have their final adjusted MPs
divided by 2, but never to less than one MP.
---

[Helpless]

Why?

[gingerbread]

This is the RAW:

14.1.1. MAXIMUM AND MINIMUM MOVEMENT POINTS
Maximum MPs: The following are the base maximum MPs for on-map units:
Non-Motorized Combat units (except Cavalry) units - 16 MP
Cavalry Combat units - 22 MP
Headquarters units - 50 MP
Rail Repair units (FBD and NKPS) - 16 MP
Axis Motorized Combat units - 50 MP
All Soviet Motorized Combat units 1941 - 25 MP (18 for Divisions prior to October 1941)
Soviet Motorized Combat Brigades 1942-1943 - 30 MP
Soviet Motorized Combat Brigades 1944 - 35 MP
Soviet Motorized Combat Corps - 50 MP

Then 14.1.2 should be run through where the first step is to start with base from table above. Then there is a bunch of checks, none of which can increase MP, only reduce, i.e. if we use 16 max for inf, 22 for cav and 18 (or possibly 25) for mot we err on the safe side.

Then the final adjusted MP is to be divided by 2 or 3, so max possible should be:
Inf: 8
Cav: 11
Mot: 8 (or 6 if the October limit is supposed to be used as base, the RAW table says so, but that might not be the intention).

There are lots of ss where units have higher MP than these for their first turn, ergo not implemented.

[Helpless]

You get it wrong. You are taking reduced values as base. It should be 50/3 = 18

[gingerbread]

Your call to make, of course. But "...final adjusted MPs divided by 3 ..." does indicate otherwise.

Should 50/2 = 25 be the limit for infantry then? Not 16/2 =8?



Sorry if I appear as a wise guy, I do like the game.

[ComradeP]

Pavel: Soviet motorized units below corps size can't have 50 MP's, so if "50/3" is used, that's an error either in the documentation or in the game. Soviet motorized unit MP's should according to the manual (which makes no special mention of increased MP's, so the maximum theoretical level should be used, which is 25) be 25/3 as 25 is the maximum they can get at the time.

The OP is correct and either the manual or the current system is wrong.

The current Soviet motorized MP's are mostly 25/2 it seems.

[Helpless]

I don't read manual

[ComradeP]

Regardless, Soviet divisions can't have 50 MP's, so the current setting is wrong.

[Helpless]

so the current setting is wrong.

no

[ComradeP]

So the game using a setting that isn't achievable, by any means, for a certain type of unit is perfectly WAD? That would certainly need to be clarified in the manual, as currently it's not working as described.

It's pretty simple:

Can Soviet combat divisions have 50 MP's? Answer: no, never.
What is the theoretical maximum for a division? Answer: 18 MP's or, if it sticks around for a long time, 25 (I don't think that's possible even for Tank divisions, though).

Is it logical that 50 MP's are used, a value which a Soviet division can never reach: no, not really.

I didn't notice this before as I somehow thought both motorized MP's and non-motorized MP's were divided by 2.

[Helpless]

You seem to answering your own questions. It could be some language barrier, but I don't understand them. Sorry.

[ComradeP]

I'm trying to figure out why you're using 50 MP's for divisions as a base, even though they can never get to that MP level.

As usual, simply answering the question would save us a prolonged debate.

[Helpless]

I'm trying to figure out why you're using 50 MP's for divisions as a base, even though they can never get to that MP level.

They can.

[Helpless]

As usual, simply answering the question would save us a prolonged debate.

You need to ask it it first.

[gingerbread]

June 22 Inf with 11 MP below, should Inf also use 50???

[ComradeP]

Sigh, OK Pavel, I'll just accept that 50 MP's are used as a base even though mobile units can't reach that level - and before you say "they can" again: - without editing the current cap on their MP's.

[Helpless]

June 22 Inf with 11 MP below, should Inf also use 50???

Infantry's base is 16.

[gingerbread]

If base for inf is 16, then the ss supports my original post. Max should be 16/2 = 8.

[Helpless]

If base for inf is 16, then the ss supports my original post. Max should be 16/2 = 8.

No. Why it should be 8? Once again I never said that original quote from manual is correct.

[gingerbread]

How should in your view the June 22 MP reduction be applied to infantry units?