41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

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Flaviusx
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by Flaviusx »

ORIGINAL: notenome

Flaviusx, the stacks you are seing are dislocated HQs corps HQs that I have no clue what to do with. I have no clue what to do with all these Soviet HQs. And I need a good use for my APs

Ok, cool. No worries then. I thought those were all combat units.
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gingerbread
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by gingerbread »

So that is the entire 2nd Pz Army joining AGS? (Or maybe that should be ?! for those who play chess.) I've made some trials with XXXXIV Pz Corps, and that can create the pocket, but will not take Rovno and beyond. The beyond part looks to be a bit much in this/any case.

The all or nothing gambit does look interesting, I'll say that. Does anyone know if the German general staff's plans/studies for this option were recovered?
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by kfmiller41 »

In my game I am using AP's to move commanders and to get units into armies as they become available. It is difficult in the first turns as things are so fluid, but it will calm down some (at least it should but you are playing comrade[:D])
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randallw
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by randallw »

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Spend your APs on 3 things.

1. Construction battalions and/or RR brigades. These will help units dig in. 2-3 per army and front.

2. Leaders. Put good ones in important places.

3. Restablishing your command and control by reattachments.

I'm going to give you a playtester secret on how to increase your APs in 1941.

Take every single motorized division you can and park them in a level 2 fort. Then set them on static mode. You'll get 15ish APs or so for each such unit. This adds up fast. You'll find plenty of level 2+ forts already up and running in places like Leningrad, Kiev, and Odessa. Otherwise move them to cities in the rear like Smolensk and get them digging to level 2 ASAP.

I read the manual but apparently the construction and RR stuff didn't register in my mind well.

So I took a look at it again; the construction and RR units held at an HQ can help combat units in the field, provided they can pass through the chain of command with a maximum of 5 hexes per 'link'. Sappers ( at HQ ) don't help, by the same process? I guess that's because they are 'reserved' for a potential reaction move to a battle?
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by randallw »

I've been basically avoiding the construction of units, whether big or small, since there are so many rifle divisions pouring in, and the support units I have tend to get used up when divisions die.
 
Construction units don't go into battle, right? So they shouldn't be dying unless the HQ gets overrun or some such disaster?
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Flaviusx
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by Flaviusx »

Construction and RR units never participate in combats (unless they are actually deployed on map and are attacked. This will only happen if they are repairing rail, otherwise they remain in HQs.) They operate differently than other support units. What they can do is contribute their construction values to combat units and help them entrench faster. Soviet units early have very poor construction abilities and need the help.

The chain of command issue isn't that critical because they are mostly going to be built and held at the army level. Don't put them in corps HQs. You do want to keep those army HQs nearby the attached combat units that are digging. If you can keep a front HQ nearby the army commands in certain important spots, it's worth putting construction units in them as well.

You will want to straighten out your command and control to provide the maximum coverage of construction assistance. (You want to do this anyways for all sorts of other reasons.)
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randallw
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by randallw »

I reread the section of the manual yesterday then raised a bunch construction units for my Army HQs.  I'm guessing they are preferable to sappers being raised, since there is a sapper shortage early in the war?
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by Flaviusx »

Well, sappers can help here as well. But they are treated as combat support units, and may get beat up in combat reinforcing nearby units. They are also more expensive to raise than the pure construction units.

Eventually you do want to build lots of sappers, or at least I do: I try to attach one sapper regiment to every single Soviet combat corps once those become available and regardless of type. They're extremely helpful in dealing with enemy entrenchments. So I treat them differently than the CBs and RR brigades which have no direct combat role. These guys are strictly diggers and rail repair.



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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by randallw »

Will keep this in mind. [:)]
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by notenome »

And so Turn 2 begins:

Much less shock and awe from Field Marshall von ComradeP this turn. Minsk and Riga are still in soviet hands, and though 53 soviet divisions went to the great colective farm in the sky, that is much much less than could have been.

In the air there is not much to report, as all my air groups went to the national reserve last turn, and will now be reorganized back to airbasses. All sugestions are welcome.

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As far as ground losses are concerned, von P continues to demonstrate a startling amount of disrespect for the sanctity of human life.

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In the North Riga stil holds, and von P has crossed the river below Pskov. slow progress is also being made up the Baltics. Totenkompf crosses the Dvina, coming back from the Estonian port it took on Turn 1.


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In the center Minsk holds, and an interestng oportunity presents itself for the NKVD to have some revenge for their fallen VVS brethren

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The swamp defense has proven so far to be entirely succesful, all atacks have failed, this combined with the continued resistance from the South, has suceeded in funeling the attack South so far.

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As far as the South goes, the pocket has been remade and expanded, but it may be possible to open it again.

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And all is quiet on the Romanian Front

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notenome
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by notenome »

Now remember that with the entire VVS being reorganized, I can't do air recon. So I may very well slam into a german division and then the pocket is closed forever. I also can't air drop supplies, which trully sucks. What I most need help with now is how to best reorganize the VVS. After that, all suggestions are welcome when it comes to setting up the best defense possible in the South. A whole bunch of troops just got unfronzen (but not the ones in the caucausses, what is Comrade Stalin waiting for???).
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by notenome »

Well isn't von P full of surprises. It appears that the division that crossed the river below Pskov is the 7th Panzer division, the famous ghost division. Either he attached it to to Hoepner's panzer group, or he's sending one of Hoth's two panzercorps up North, either to assault Leningrad, or to go through Velkie Luki. I had suspected he'd try something like this.

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randallw
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by randallw »

Doing recon close to the front, your recon planes shouldn't get swarmed on too badly; they might be able to do their work decently.
 
My Soviet fighters have trouble taking on the German recon planes; it might work the other way too.
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by notenome »

When you deploy a plane from the National Reserve to an airbase, it has 100% mileage. Its the trade off for reorganizing the entire soviet airforce on Turns 1-2. I have no airgroups capable of flying an air recon mission.
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by notenome »

So close and yet so far, two hexes and I would have simultaneously isolated no less than 10 mobile divisions and supplied my troops.

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Well at least his supply should be a mess, just about every hex has some ZOC from one of my units
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by randallw »

I think there may be MP penalties on Sov units early in the game.  Isolating Germans will be extremely difficult.
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by notenome »

So updated planning.

In the North, its clear von P has sent one of Hoths corps to Pskov. Either he attached it to Kleist (unlikely), or he's planning an encirclement. One of Hoepners corps is travelling up the Baltics, probably in an effort to close a northern pincer. One good thing about still holding on to Riga is that despite rail repair being fast in the Baltics, vonPs supply situation for his panzers is going to be awful. With Riga taken you can get a railhead across the Dvina by turn 3, but thanks to ZOC penalties etc, vonP will probably only have one by turn 4 or 5.

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In the South Im under a lot of stress. Guderian is to the North, Kleist is to the South. Two panzer armies allows for two separate axis of advance. So the possibilities are endless. Von P probalby has two FBDs repairing the rail, Guderian has a breakthrough at Vinitsia, and I suspect he will try to push straight to Kiev. If I insist on holding a line at the Romanian Front, Kleist will push southwards and trap the entire Odessa Front. At all costs, I need to keep them away from the Dnepr for one more turn, then I'll get a horde of reinforcements South.

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What I need help with now is some sort of defensive plan for the south and some help reorganizing the Red Air force.
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Flaviusx
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by Flaviusx »

Keep trying to exfiltrate units from Southwest front. Continue to look for opportunities to cut off the AGS panzers. They're badly strung out now and well beyond their infantry support. I think you're going to wind up losing a big chunk of Southwest Front west of the Dnepr, so don't feel compelled to feed many new units into this area. I'd be looking to establish my first real line on the Dnepr proper down there and get dug in ASAP.

In the meantime the stuff west of the Dnepr needs to buy you time via checkerboards and isolation of the panzers.
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by notenome »

End of turn report.

Command and control has been partially restablished. Though HQ distances are a mess, and HQs are everywhere atm, at least its all the same color. The Red Airforce has been redeployed, about half of it in the South, 1/3 in the North and the rest in the center. We will begin night bombing airbases, night dropping supplies, and aggesively ground attacking panzer spearheads in the next turn. I will not spare the red airforce, the idea is to get rid of all those obsolete planes by flying them aggressively, then replacing them with newer models. The newer Il-4s, Il-2s and Migs are almost all in the south. As the panzers progress farther into Mother Russia, they will begin outrunning not only their supplies but also fighter cover. As fighters travel farther, they suffer more operational losses.

In the ground we have formed vast checkerboard defenses everywhere, particularly in the South. This comes at a price, as I need to start digging in on Leningrad ASAP, for example.

In the North the priority is to protect the direct approach to Leningrad and buy time. Von P does not have a rail head across the Dvina, and Turn 3 is normally when axis mobile units suffer a steep drop in performance and range. With reinforcements we can begin to dig in the ports. I need a good strategy on how to guard the finish border, as I want to use those troops to defend Leningrad. A soviet casualty suffered vs Finns is a waste atm.

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What worries me is that if he turns east, von P might very well be able to capture Velkie Lukie and create a large salient north of Smolensk. Still I'd rather defend one place well then two places poorly, and Leningrad is more important.

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In the Center Von P is paying for his choices, Minsk is not taken and Smolensk looks safe for at least two weeks. That said, this area got almost no reinforcements, and many of its HQs are vacationing in the Pripyat marshes. The only thing that worries me is an attack towards Velkie Luki will not meet much resistance and will create a large salient.

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In the South we have formed a vast checkerboard, bringing in units from Kharkov, Orel, the Caucasses, everywhere. The price is that very little digging is going to occur across the Dnepr. Still, we have to delay von P for one more turn here and then proper defense can be set up. The best formation the motherland has to offer, 7th mech, with its best division, 1st motorized, guards the southern approach to Kiev. Also, given von P's reluctance to attack the pockets thus far, Soviet troops have launched an 'offensive' into the Reich, isolating a security division and hopefully forcing von P to deal with them sooner rather then latter (with minors). All soviet troops have been ordered to hug the Germans, and Axis supply must be a mess with all the Swiss chese going down there. Hopefully this will also increase attrition.

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In the far south, we have intentionally left a vast gap and even moved in some empty airfields to be overrun. This is where we want von P's panzers. If he bites the bait my only concern is that the closests cities (except for Odessa) have not had there factories evacuated yet. Still, I cant fathom von Ps supply situation will allow for such a dash, and if it does, those panzers will be extremely exposed as there's no way the Romanians can cover such an advance.

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Flaviusx
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RE: 41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

Post by Flaviusx »

Now that's some serious checkerboard action.

You may even get some sweet, sweet counterattacking opportunities if he keeps pressing forward in the south.

It's very easy for a German to blunder deep into a checkerboard, get cut off, counterattacked, and be routed back with heavy losses. I've done this as early as turn 2.
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