Attack Bombers Too Effective?

[PresterJohn001]

Afternoon Air attack on Torokina , at 109,130

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft
Beaufort VIII x 7
B-25D1 Mitchell x 12
P-40K Warhawk x 24


Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort VIII: 2 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 6 damaged



Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 60

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Beaufort VIII bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
-----------------------------------------------------------------

50 Runway hits repeatably from a dozen attack bombers. Really is that right? Allies already have over rated ability to shut down airfields.

I understand that the role of the Japanese player is to take it and not complain but seriously???

[crsutton]

First, do you have FOW on? You would actually need to look at the base to see if it was that damaged. Combat reports can be very inaccurate.

[JeffroK]

50 Runway hits repeatably from a dozen attack bombers. Really is that right? Allies already have over rated ability to shut down airfields.

Are these all bomb hits or are some strafing hits, and as mentioned FOW could be exaggerating things.

But, attacking an undefended base from 9000ft would be an easy target, only 60% hit rate.

The Allies IRL continually shut down JAAF bases once escorted Medium bombers wee within range.

[PresterJohn001]

Yes the base is shut down.

The question is, if my experience of the effectiveness of attack bombers is replicated, is that level of damage too much? Is it ahistoric and/or are they unbalanced with respect to other unit types on both sides?
(ie even if the damage is realistic, is it in context with the capabilities of other units within the game)

[PresterJohn001]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

50 Runway hits repeatably from a dozen attack bombers. Really is that right? Allies already have over rated ability to shut down airfields.

Are these all bomb hits or are some strafing hits, and as mentioned FOW could be exaggerating things.

But, attacking an undefended base from 9000ft would be an easy target, only 60% hit rate.

The Allies IRL continually shut down JAAF bases once escorted Medium bombers wee within range.

The allies can already shut down multiple airfields over an entire theatre with just their 4E bombers. For context the timeline is April '43

[JohnDillworth]

I understand that the role of the Japanese player is to take it and not complain but seriously???

Well the Japanese player could manufacture a couple of hundred Tojo's this week and make sure that doesn't happen again. [:D]

[khyberbill]

7 x Beaufort VIII bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

well, they were bombing from one hundred feet. that is low to the ground.

[wdolson]

Also note that there were only two airbase hits.  Runways are pretty easy to hit, other targets are not.  From 100 feet, planes are very vulnerable to flak, but it's pretty hard to miss something as big as a runway from that altitude.

Bill

[PresterJohn001]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I understand that the role of the Japanese player is to take it and not complain but seriously???

Well the Japanese player could manufacture a couple of hundred Tojo's this week and make sure that doesn't happen again. [:D]

Yeah but the allies just send their Ace Liberators through and shoot em all down [;)]

[PresterJohn001]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Also note that there were only two airbase hits.  Runways are pretty easy to hit, other targets are not.  From 100 feet, planes are very vulnerable to flak, but it's pretty hard to miss something as big as a runway from that altitude.

Bill

Yep i get that, but runways are not so easy to repair, 60 hits from 12 planes are not so easy to repair.in game. I have no doubt the allies could bomberize anything they felt like by the end of the war, but earlyish '43 combined with the 4e queens of the sky and i think the allied airbase shut down capability is overstated, to an extent that unbalances the game.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Also note that there were only two airbase hits.  Runways are pretty easy to hit, other targets are not.  From 100 feet, planes are very vulnerable to flak, but it's pretty hard to miss something as big as a runway from that altitude.

Bill

You would have to be very careful to not hit yourself bombing a runway at 100 feet. [:)]

[Ambassador]

Especially as the weather is "Severe storms".

You need crack pilots to fly at 100ft over the ground in a severe storm...

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Also note that there were only two airbase hits.  Runways are pretty easy to hit, other targets are not.  From 100 feet, planes are very vulnerable to flak, but it's pretty hard to miss something as big as a runway from that altitude.

Bill

ORIGINAL: Nomad
You would have to be very careful to not hit yourself bombing a runway at 100 feet. [:)]

In the real war the Allies used parafrags for that kind of mission. Probably a good thing for the JFBs parafrags aren't an option in game. Such an attack would have resulted in several hundred runway hits.

Bill

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Also note that there were only two airbase hits.  Runways are pretty easy to hit, other targets are not.  From 100 feet, planes are very vulnerable to flak, but it's pretty hard to miss something as big as a runway from that altitude.

Bill

Yep i get that, but runways are not so easy to repair, 60 hits from 12 planes are not so easy to repair.in game. I have no doubt the allies could bomberize anything they felt like by the end of the war, but earlyish '43 combined with the 4e queens of the sky and i think the allied airbase shut down capability is overstated, to an extent that unbalances the game.

No, by mid 43 the Allies had pretty much whipped the Japanese air forces and could close down pretty much any base in range of their mediums. Later in the war just about every allied fighter could carry a massive load of bombs as well. It just never was fun for Japan.

[oldman45]

To add some salt to the wound, if they thought there might be too much flak, they would send in B24's to bomb from 12k to avoid the flak, then in the confusion the B-25's would come in at tree top level with the para frags and cluster bombs. 1943 was a bad time for the IJAF.

[Fallschirmjager]

Would not 500 or 250 lb bombs with time delayed fuses be used? Were they around during WW2? Did they come in sizes that large?

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

50 Runway hits repeatably from a dozen attack bombers. Really is that right? Allies already have over rated ability to shut down airfields.

I understand that the role of the Japanese player is to take it and not complain but seriously???

An airfield that has no CAP or AAA, what are you expecting them to down a few dozen fighters with rocks?

Stop playing the AI if its that easy.

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
Really is that right? Allies already have over rated ability to shut down airfields.

I understand that the role of the Japanese player is to take it and not complain but seriously???

I have to agree, IMO biggest flaw in this game. In my other PBEM game (ended 10/42) allies could keep all my important airbases shut down: all Burma airbases, and also Port Moresby, Milne Bay, Lunga, Tulagi, Munda and Shortlands.

On average there was 80 4E bombers flying every day. Some days there was just 30, but next day there was 150... And about 100-200 2E bombers over Burma every day...

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Would not 500 or 250 lb bombs with time delayed fuses be used? Were they around during WW2? Did they come in sizes that large?

Larger bombs would tend to bury themselves which would create smaller craters. Many small crates would take a lot more time to repair than a few large ones. A hole a foot across and 6 inches deep could still wreck a plane. Para frags often also included bombs that wouldn't go off when they landed, but would arm in the air and sit there until disturbed. They had about the explosive force of a hand grenade. It required the bomb disposal guys to clear the unexploded bombs before the runway crew could even start repairs.

Bill

[Zemke]

It is sucks to be Japan after the first six months. I am playing two PBEM games, one as Japan and one as Allies. As Japan, the game is into late 43, and my bases are pretty much targets. 90% of the time I just pack it in, move all the planes I can and wait till he moves on to other bases. I have lots of ToJos, but they don't stop the 4E bombers for crap, no fighter I have made has been able to with enough success to make him think twice. Early in the war I could, but not now. I just finished reading "The Pacific War: The Strategy and Ploitics, and Players that Won the War", by William B. Hopkins and it pretty much confirms my first sentence in this post.