41 Grand Campaign Me(sov) vs ComradeP (axis)

[raizer]

checkerboard is how you defend -make him pay for each hex and each zoc.  He will be moving up on new units with each hex moved and wont have the time to delib attack-forced to hasty, and no one wants to do that with panzers, hell you might start holding some of those attacks.  Notenome have you played any hps games? Because you have this operational warfare down [:)] (course I consider this strategic level)

[Mynok]

Yikes. I'm pondering how to attack that kind of setup. I don't think it can be done without lots of infantry to take out the first few lines.

[Tophat1815]

Curious to see how this all turns out over the next 3 turns. What turn are you on again? by the way,GOOD LUCK!

[randallw]

Do you have something set up to attack units that take the bait down south?

[notenome]

Nope, I'd be crying tears of joy if he turned south. He could go all the way to the Volga in 41 and I'd be elated.

[randallw]

You seem to have airbases in some stacks; i'm not sure how that helps.

[notenome]

Its just so they don't get overrun by some marauding unit. Especially good for the Axis. I don't attach any air units to the SAD airbases and keep them foreward as staging airbases for air missions. That way my planes have there range extended and I don't run the risk of having damaged aircraft be overrun.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Yikes. I'm pondering how to attack that kind of setup. I don't think it can be done without lots of infantry to take out the first few lines.

It's going to be interesting to see how ComradeP handles this. I see the already meager - compared with AGC - infantry forces assigned to AGS badly scattered. He might need to further weaken AGC by transferring another infantry army south or conduct a very cautious advance towards Odessa with the Romanians alone, to deploy the 11th (?) Army to the north.

This looks like a bad case of, as the Spanish saying goes, "quien mucho abarca, poco aprieta" (he who embraces too much, doesn't grab much).

EDIT #1: I've been thinking for some time now on the strength/weaknesses of "checkerboards", and this manual section (6.3.3) looks to me as uncovering a way to open up a checkerboard:

6.3.3. CONVERSION OF ENEMY HEXES
For purposes of converting enemy hexes into pending friendly hexes, ZOCs are only effective
for larger combat units. All combat units convert the hex they enter as they move into a
pending friendly hex. Division and Corps sized combat units convert the hex they enter, and any unoccupied adjacent hexes in their ZOC unless the unoccupied hex is also in the ZOC of an enemy combat unit. Brigade and regimental size combat unit ZOC will not convert adjacent enemy hexes into pending friendly hexes. Supply can be traced through an enemy ZOC as long as the hex is friendly controlled or pending friendly, albeit at an increased distance due to additional movement point costs (20.4.1). The trace and range that headquarter units can provide support squad ground elements to other units are calculated in the same manner (7.6.4).
HQ units must be able to trace a path of no more than five hexes through friendly or pending friendly hexes to combat units in order to provide support units during combat 15.4).

If I am reading correctly the highlighted sentences, this means that it is feasible to lay a "carpet" of infantry units which could enable mechanized forces to conserve a few more MPs and strike hard deep in the back (or even cut-off a whole section of the defence).

If so, while being very infantry intensive, there's indeed a way to crack open a checkerboard and effectively using this strategy requires not only to place units properly, but also choose cleverly what units you put in what position.

Am I right?

Another thing I am not that convinced is in having checkerboards more than 3 hexes deep. Economy of force entails dispersion of force, so it might prevent the defender from counterattacking - taking advantage on enemy units stranded like whales in the checkerboard - with violence enough to be successful.

EDIT #2: Giving this concept another spin, I just realized that the following sentence implies that regiment/brigades convert into pending the hex they occupy:

Brigade and regimental size combat unit ZOC will not convert adjacent enemy hexes into pending friendly hexes.

Thoughts?

[notenome]

Our first good turn.

In the North, Riga still holds, tying down at least 5 fascist units, von P has pulled his panzers back from the Narva and concentrated on Pskov, however the patriotic 183rd Rifle Division held off the fascists invaders and not an inch has been given. Give them Guards status. Also of interest is that XXIX panzer corps is also in the area, which means that either von P is trying a wide flanking maneauver on Smolensk (unlikely) or he has further weakened the center to reinforce the drive on Leningrad (more likely considering the strategic choices the Feldmarshall has made thus far.





In the Center, we have curiously spotted the Wiking Division to the south of Minsk. Perhaps von P has decided to reinforce the center given his lack of progress, or perhaps he is pushing hard for an encirclement of the marshes. Minsk was isolated but supplies were restablished, and as predicted von P is attempting to force a northern push towards Vitebsk, but with his complete lack of armor, he was not able to close the pocket. Smolensk continues to be safe for the forseable future.





In the swamps von P continues to have much grief. None of the Soviet formations have been isolated and there are no less than 11 axis divisions attempting to clear the Pripyat Marshes. As the Second Army only gets released on turn 3, these are other AGC and AGS fomations, a major drain on his infantry. Maintaining an advance in the swamps is important for von P because it greatly facilates any encirclement for his panzers. We are very pleased.



In the South von P has finally begun reducing the pocket, but some brave Soviet defenders continue to resist. Von P has encircled 5 more divisions, a very small sum compared to earlier weeks. He has resisted the temptation to go South, instead aiming his panzer armies straight for Kiev. Von P advanced 90 miles over the past week, and we expect him to reach the outskirts Kiev by the end of next turn (about 80 miles remaining). The lions share of reinforcements will go towards fortifying the line at Kiev, and the checkerboard will delay him for as long as it can. The units von P fought against these last two turns were unready, on the approach to Kiev he will begin to confront better Soviet formations. As for the Romanian front, axis units have made contact with our threadbare line, but no combat was made.





Last but not least, losses. Von P's have been lower than I wanted, but on the bright side his panzers have been doing most of the fighting. As the VVS will begin a massive bombing campaign this turn, we expect things to get very interesting.

[Mynok]

You're going to do ground attacks? Be interesting to see as that's not common from the German side AARs.

[notenome]

Fresh from their Crimean vacation, the Red Airforce comes back with a bang. Against themselves and the Nazis. Somehow some 50-60% of the Red Airforce's planes became damaged or reserved after turn 2, all by their lonesome. I did some digging and suspect it has something to do with a lack of support, since almost all airbases are running at 30% needed support.

On the bright side, those elements of the Red Airforce that can fly launched Operation Vengeance, a combination of day and night bombing of fascists HQs, panzers and airbases.



Keep in mind that only about 1/3 of casualties are destroyed. The rest become damaged or disrupted. I haven't done any attacks, so all casualties you see this turn for the Axis are from the air campaign. If you look at the number of ready aircraft of the Luftwafte, that is well well below what it should be for turn 3, about 200 less than it was at the beginning of the turn. Also especially wonderful was blowing up 3 fuel dumps of the Axis spearhead, and damaging several supply dumps. 1200 dead Germans ain't bad either. Considering the average Red Airforce pilot right now has a 50-50 chance of blowing up his engine when he starts his plane, not bad for a weeks work.

[randallw]

Operation Vengeance has a fine ring to it though.
 
Might be a little early to be bringing them back into the fight.  Another two months and they'd have a little better experience and an impressively better morale.

[notenome]

End of turn Report.

In the North, the Northwest front sends its best division with a CV of 5 of relieve the hero division. Hopefully we can keep stalling the panzers here. A newly formed army starts digging in to protect Leningrads supply line. Some reinforcements are sent, but not many.



In the Center no pockets were formed, Minsk still holds and was resupplied, but some units will be doubtlessly be firmly isolated next turn. The checkerboard is expanded, and the presence of two motorized divisions is noted to the South of Mogilev. Question is whether von P plans to turn them north or south. The longer P waits to assault major cities like Riga and Minsk, the worse his supply situation is going to be. Its a trade off between not taking excess casualties and having clean supply lines. If von P delays his assault on Minsk until it is isolated, he will only be assaulting it on turn 5 by the earliest.



In the South only 5 divisions were isolated. The checkerboard was slightly expanded, and 7th mech (the Motherland's best formation), is now protecting the direct route to Kiev. I have set 7th Mech to reserve, hopefully they will be able to frustrate Axis attacks from further out. I believe Kliest will turn south next turn, and attempt to smash through Southern front, his supply situation is better than Guderian's. All factories in the immediacy have been evacuated. Newly formed armies have begun digging along the Dnepr, and yet more construction batallions have been raised.



In the Romanian Front all is quiet. As the Romanian's can't advance very fast, the advance along the far south is typically very slow. However, since we expect Kliest to attack south, we have pulled back from the hills of Bessarabia as a salient had formed. On the other hand cavalry divisions have raided german occupied territory (I moved into empty ZOCs), to further slow Axis movement. The South only has one army-level formation right now and its badly over-loaded. I would have sent one of the 'empty' armies to aid C &C but the separate coastal army arrives next turn, till then its double shifts for the 9th.



Lastly, as I had almost 100k rail cap available by turns end, I evacuated factories from 6 different cities. This has been my MO so far, to not waste rail cap at the end of my turns. However, the downside is that evacuating factories too fast may really gimp my production for the coming and decisive months...

[randallw]

How close are the Germans when you evacuate factories?

[randallw]

The checkerboard is respectably deep. [:)]

[notenome]

As you can see from the SSs, they are nowhere near Gomel or Cherkassy, but both of those were evacuated this turn, for example. Right now its not about how close they are, its more a way to spend excess rail cap.

[Flaviusx]

Indeed, the checkerboard is probably deeper than it needs to be. 3 deep checkerboard is enough, and anything past that might more profitably be used to dig in a linear defense on good terrain somewhere to the rear.

If you have enough units to form a checkerboard this deep you might even have enough units to go for an outright defense in mass. Although I'd hesitate in doing a mass defense in clear terrain.

Once you have a strong fort line behind a major river you can abandon the checkerboard entirely and go for a pure linear defense, stacked 3 high, with reserves and/or possibly a second line of defenders. This will be amazingly difficult to crack. Level 2+ forts behind major rivers with a full stack of defenders is almost impossible to clear with a hasty attack; and a deliberate attack on same will chew up most of the enemy's movement and limit the amount of units that can cross over to form a bridgehead. Such bridgeheads can be counterattacked, too, and stand a good chance of being cleared. (Although you'll have lost the fort.)

Units placed in reserve really come into their own on such defenses. If one or more units in reserve intervene on a deliberate attack made against the river defense, they may even stop the attack cold.

Linear defenses do have place in this game...under certain conditions. The checkerboard is an important tool, but it's not the answer to everything. It's entirely appropriate in this situation, granted, since the Dnepr defense isn't yet in place and there's nothing west of the Dnepr which makes a linear defense attractive.

[notenome]

My strategy for the South is gradual compression. As von P advances against the checkerboard, retreated and routed units will join the units building a linear defense. Think of it like pressing a metal spring against a wall, until there is no more space between the loops.

[Flaviusx]

I like the image, and think that's exactly the way to go.

You want to hold him up there as long as possible. Once past the Dnepr...it gets kind of ugly down south. There's no real natural line of defense past that for a very long ways (the Don, in fact.)

He'll punch through at some point, but if you can run down the clock and limit the number of clear turns available to plunge deep, then good enough. This also limits how much rail conversion he can do.

[notenome]

Yeah, past Kiev its huge wide open tank country all the way to Tula and Voronezh, the only natural barrier being Axis supply lines.