Odd Auto-Convoy Loading Behavior

[Bullwinkle58]

Running second beta patch in on-going game against AI, started under Patch 4.

At both SF and Colombo I'm getting multiple cases of the Auto-Convoy routines trying to load up convoys with Resources, with SF or Colombo as both Home Port and Destination.

I know michaelm and the release note report changes to the AC code to improve reporting and other items, so this may be a hang up from that. Screenshots below and in succeeding post. Save game attached.

Also, the screenshot for SF shows two turns AFTER I hand-disbanded nine ACs at SF loaded or loading with Resources with SF set as the destination. The code is VERY persistent in wanting to do this.

[Bullwinkle58]

Detail screenshot of one convoy at SF exhibiting this behavior.

[Bullwinkle58]

Save game for this problem. I don't have turn just before. Hope this is not a problem. If it is, I could save and post two succeeeding turns later than this if I need to.

[michaelm75au]

The AC changes were in the first build of this beta. No changes in the second one.

Normal auto convoy TFs show 'CS:xxxx' where xxx is the destination endpoint.

The main bases can't be a destination for AC so I cannot see why it would be doing so. I haven't come across this in any of my test runs.

I think I need a save of the turn it changes into just 'Automatic Convoy' on one of the TFs.

[Rainer]

Attached save shows 5 Auto Convoys loading Resources and have TF Destination = Home Port.
All TFs were formed by the computer.

TF 79 Colombo
TF 386 Colombo
TF 468 Colombo
TF 469 San Francisco
TF 564 San Francisco

Several saves before (daily back to March 4, 1943 Game Date) available if needed.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Attached save shows 5 Auto Convoys loading Resources and have TF Destination = Home Port.
All TFs were formed by the computer.

TF 79 Colombo
TF 386 Colombo
TF 468 Colombo
TF 469 San Francisco
TF 564 San Francisco

Several saves before (daily back to March 4, 1943 Game Date) available if needed.

Thanks to Rainer for the saves. I only keep one day's worth in order to easily use Tracker.

to michaelm:

In the Save I provided, please also look at Auckland, NZ. There is an Auto-Convoy there, homeport SF, Destination SF, trying to load Resources to take back to SF. This somewhat recalls similar code behavior for CS convoys from before several patches ago, before the CS button was inserted to allow ordering Resource or Oil be loaded for back-haul from the distant base. (Again, my examples are AUTO-CONVOYS not CS convoys.)

Regardless, there's no reason the AC system should be trying to back-haul Resources to CONUS, ever. This behavior must have been in the first beta and I didn't notice. It definitely was not in Patch 4, before the first beta of the current patch.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The AC changes were in the first build of this beta. No changes in the second one.

Normal auto convoy TFs show 'CS:xxxx' where xxx is the destination endpoint.

The main bases can't be a destination for AC so I cannot see why it would be doing so. I haven't come across this in any of my test runs.

I think I need a save of the turn it changes into just 'Automatic Convoy' on one of the TFs.

Michael, please note that these are Auto Convoys, NOT CS convoys. Formed at SF and Colombo by the AC code using the Auto-Convoy system, not by the player using the CS method. In my games, AC convoys have always been labeled "Automatic Convoy" in the top line of the text stack below the picture on the TF screen.

This may have been happening on the first beta too, and I didn't notice it. Please don't take my comment of this being a second beta issue as determinative.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The AC changes were in the first build of this beta. No changes in the second one.

Normal auto convoy TFs show 'CS:xxxx' where xxx is the destination endpoint.

The main bases can't be a destination for AC so I cannot see why it would be doing so. I haven't come across this in any of my test runs.

I think I need a save of the turn it changes into just 'Automatic Convoy' on one of the TFs.

Michael, please note that these are Auto Convoys, NOT CS convoys. formed at SF and Colombo by the AC code using the Auto-Convoy system, not by the player using the CS method. In my games, AC convoys have always been labeled "Automatic Convoy" in the top line of the text stack below the picture on the TF screen.

This may have been happening on the first beta too, and I didn't notice it. Please don't take my comment of this being a second beta issue as determinative.

My mistake. I was mis-reading the problem.

[Rainer]

Just yell if you need more saves ...

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Just yell if you need more saves ...

Can you add it with a zip extension?
Having trouble with trying to download the 'txt' file

[michaelm75au]

From what I have seen so far the TFs are returning from an AC mission with stuff to unload; not a new AC mission.
Why returning with resources is unclear.

Tracking one TF that arrived in Wellington and wants to return to SF.

[edit]
I added the ability for AC to return cargo if applicable in the initial beta patch.
The existing resource/oil check only looks at the AC's arrival base (Wellington for example) and if there is a lot of resource/oil there it sends it back to the home base.
I will add another check on the home base to ensure that it isn't overstocked before sending some back.

I found that left to its own, these TFs in SF and Colombo unloaded and disbanded. I think that the reason they are staying around too long is because they have picked up resource/oil from the initial destination and are taking time to unload at the return/home base. Once a AC TF finishes unloading, it disbands and the ships are available for re-use.

[Rainer]

Here you go.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

From what I have seen so far the TFs are returning from an AC mission with stuff to unload; not a new AC mission.
Why returning with resources is unclear.

Tracking one TF that arrived in Wellington and wants to return to SF.

[edit]
I added the ability for AC to return cargo if applicable in the initial beta patch.
The existing resource/oil check only looks at the AC's arrival base (Wellington for example) and if there is a lot of resource/oil there it sends it back to the home base.
I will add another check on the home base to ensure that it isn't overstocked before sending some back.

I found that left to its own, these TFs in SF and Colombo unloaded and disbanded. I think that the reason they are staying around too long is because they have picked up resource/oil from the initial destination and are taking time to unload at the return/home base. Once a AC TF finishes unloading, it disbands and the ships are available for re-use.

If you're taking votes, and you may not be, I'll add mine that backhauling is a bad idea. Speaking as an Allied-only player (the Japanese are totally different and I have no idea how their Auto Convoys work) there is never a need to have either Resources or Oil backhauled to SF or Colombo. In fact, the loading time for either is a dead-weight system loss for the AC effort. For most of the early to mid-war I desperately need those hulls back at SF or Colombo as fast as possible for new outbound loads. Several days spent loading stuff out in the theater is a waste of a valuable convoy, plus any escorts, which I'm always very short on for AC use.

I like the changes you made to the AC routines in the betas a lot. In particular, the ability to see which bases get serviced from which AC homeport is very useful when figuring risk of air attack. But having ACs get involved in backhauling anything is a new negative to the system IMO. I'd vote to strip that out and leave it as it used to be. If an allied player wants to backhaul, the means exist in the CS system to fine tune that with the existing button in that screen.

[Bullwinkle58]

Not to beat this one into the ground, but I'm definitely seeing Auto Convoys created at SF, loading Resources at SF, with SF as both a homeport and a destination. SF in my game has about 1.55M Resources in storage.

This is a diferent issue than ACs out in the theater loading Resources for backhaul to SF or Colombo. These guys are in a loop at homeport, being created to load to deliver to the same port. If that's NOT what's happening in the code then there is/are a display error(s) since the screen below clearly indicates in two different places that Resources are being loaded, not unloaded following a backhaul.

Screenshot below.

This was not occurring prior to the betas. I can't see anything you did in the changes to AC in the first beta to cause this. Those seem to this user to be display changes in the AC management screen only. But something is whacky in the AC TF origin/creation code now.

[Rainer]

Confirmed (that is what my save shows at San Francisco and Colombo - see post #5).

Michael, I believe that needs your attention.

[seadog1939]

I know this has nothing to do with the question at hand but I need some help asking a question in the forum. Everytime I click on new thread it brings me back to the same page and there is no place to ask the question so I decided to try to ask this way. Sorry to bother you but I don't know what else to do can you help me out?
Thank you.

[michaelm75au]

I ran several turns from one of the saves under 1108c and I had a couple of those loading resource TFs.

I ran the same number of turns from the starting save under 1108g (next version of the build) and none of those TFs showed up.
I thinking the changes I made to stop loading resource/oil as a return cargo has fixed this.

[Rainer]

EDIT: I just saw that you are referring to 1108g (unpublished yet).
So please ignore below. Sorry.




I still have Auto Convoy TFs at Colombo and San Francisco loading Resources where Destination and Home Port are the same (see below).
Let me know if you need saves or more information.
Saves currently available April 3 to current date (April 10).


OPERATIONAL REPORT FOR Apr 10, 43

SS S-35 leaving patrol zone to replenish at Los Angeles
SS Tuna transfers to Pearl Harbor
Task Force 266 formed at San Francisco for Auto Supply to Prince Rupert
Task Force 276 formed at Colombo for Auto Supply to Moulmein
Task Force 295 formed at San Francisco for Auto Fuel to Annette Island
Coastwatcher Report: 6 ships in port at Rabaul
51st (East African) Construction Battalion packing for load on xAP Rohna (TF 159), 1 day(s) remaining
Auto Convoy TF 79 will load Resources at Colombo for return to Colombo
Auto Convoy TF 448 will load Resources at Colombo for return to Colombo
Auto Convoy TF 468 will load Resources at Colombo for return to Colombo
Auto Convoy TF 469 will load Resources at San Francisco for return to San Francisco

[michaelm75au]

No problem.
Those highlighted lines seem to confirm the old outcome - return loading of resources. I suspect that the earlier fix to default to the home base when creating TFs confused the auto-load.

[Rainer]

confused the auto-load

Not to mention me [;)]