Play Balance

[Q-Ball]

It's maybe too early to draw big conclusions, but the initial AARs seem to show that it's difficult for the Germans to meet/exceed historical gains, against a reasonably competent PBEM opponent. And we haven't seen too many PBEM First Winters yet, which figure to end a couple PBEMs, I predict![:D]

Even the AI has stopped me in a couple places, I just started this game and haven't played much, but a German Victory does not look easy against the AI. Meanwhile, Soviet players vs. AI are routinely threatening Germany in 1943.

Maybe that's WAD, because the Soviets IRL made a pile of strategic errors in 1941 that a PBEM player in hindsight won't repeat. Maybe that's cool, but in that case, shouldn't the bar for victory for the Germans be lowered a bit? Or, certain items be made a bit easier (like attacking units in Swamps)? Or Luftwaffe effectiveness? Just asking if there is enough to state yet that the Victory conditions are unbalanced. Thoughts?

[Flaviusx]

I'd say the Germans have a bigger learning curve than the Soviets, defense is easier than offense, and it's too early to draw conclusions.

None of you have seen what a first class German player can do. Although some of you have good potential to become such players from the AARs I've been following.

If you really want to see what the Wehrmacht can do in the hands of a master, pick a PBEM GC with Andy as the Germans. One of these days I need to take on sensei myself, actually.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

You guys think that Soviets are overpowered in WitE? [;)]


Among other Andy ("Sabre21") and Daniel ("U2") and Ester ("Northern Star") are superb Axis players!

Against them even the most competent Soviet player has almost no chance in PBEM... I kid you not... [:D]


Leo "Apollo11"

[Q-Ball]

OK, good to know, just asking.

Why is the learning curve steeper for the Germans? More types of units to play with? Less margin for error?

Seems like the Soviets have quite a large margin for error, just like IRL.

[karonagames]

I took me 3 months and 3 1941 Campaigns before I was getting close to Historical results as the Axis. I think it takes time to figure out how the C&C and logistics integrate with each other to maximise tactical successes. Against the AI it takes a while to figure out how it will react to your moves.

After 5 months I could operate at higher difficulty and do better than historically.

In 6 months time We will see Moscow getting captured before the blizzard on a regular basis.

[CarnageINC]

IMO I think its a bit harder for the axis average player to make any headway versus the AI let alone a pbem.  That is one reason I pushed for arty attachments to help out the axis.  Time will tell in pbem games.

[karonagames]

In 6 months time We will see Moscow getting captured before the blizzard on a regular basis.

Didn't take 6 hours, as 2 SS have been posted in the thread in the main forum!

[CarnageINC]

I write my posting from a pbem point of view.  Playing a human must be harder than the AI so I thought it would be nice to have some way of 'equalizing' the playing field some.

[Klydon]

I think most everyone hit it on the nose here.

The Russians are easier to play between novice players or vs German AI from the standpoint it is typically easier to defend and when you also have the resource edge, that helps a lot.

You also have the issue on who made more mistakes during the 1941 campaign and the Russians made a ton of mistakes that the typical human opponent would not make. The Germans actually had a lot go right for them in the early going if you get past the issue about when the campaign started. Diverting forces from AGC is probably the first big mistake that some people would point to. Certainly the decision to launch the offensive so late against Moscow was a mistake in hindsite. The vast majority of German players are going to plan on going into 1942.

Going to be interesting to continue to keep an eye on the AAR's.

[jomni]

The War in the East is not historically balanced in the first place (and also the War in the Pacific).

But to compensate, the balance is actually done in the victory conditions.
Only time will tell if the vicotry conditions are balanced or lopsided.
Remember, the Germans can still at least get a Draw if he prevents the Soviets from capturing Berlin, or if he still has a high score upon the capture of Berlin.

BTW, I'm currently reading an AAR with the Soviets being bashed hard.