Road Top Smolensk AI Normal

[AZKGungHo]

Well I thought it was time I step up and see how I can do against the AI on normal. I've done pretty good against Easy on the Road scenarios, though I have to admit the southern front is messy.

Anyway, here's the end of my first turn. My goal is to create a huge pocket, and drive like crazy for Smolensk. My goal is to get there quicker than the Germans did historically, and see what I can do from there. Comments, ideas, etc. welcome!

[FredSanford3]

My suggestion would be to make more effort to get your infantry forward.  If that's the end of your turn, it appears that the 4th and 9th army didn't move much.  I generally breakdown the security divs, and a (very) few of the infantry divs, and thinly screen (2 empty hexes betw. regts. thin) the western edge of the pocket with them. The Soviets can't strike west out of that pocket, so the entire western perimeter is very much an economy of force area. Then use the bulk of the 4th and 9th armies to make the initial border assaults and penetrate as far east as you can with them.  Then, use the infantry from the 2nd & 3rd Panzer groups to make the follow-on attacks at your two pincer points. Use hasty attacks everywhere. Only after you've moved/attacked as far east as your infantry can go do you begin to move the motorized/panzer units. Even then, work from deepest to closest. The panzer divs that start right on the border should be the last units you move, so they can go the furthest in.
 
Remember where your points are scored- killing the pocketed Russians is very much a secondary task.

[htuna]

I've lost this one twice on Normal.. lol makes me scared to try the GC.. so will be interesting to see how you do, I hope I learn something!

[AZKGungHo]

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it. This is the first full scale AAR I've ever dared to do, so we'll see how it goes!

Here's what things look like at the end of turn 2


I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't get any further. The Russians are definitely harder to kill on Normal than Easy!

As you can see in Circle 1, I've still got some Reds to kill off in my encirclement This is the first time I've ever tried for such a big pocket, and it leaves me wondering about the wisdom of going for the really huge ones

Circles 2 and 3 show how far my panzer spearheads have gone. It's not bad, but not where I wanted them to be. On Easy I actually took Smolensk on turn 2, I was hoping to at least get close this time. No such luck, but depending on how fast the Russians can build up, I've got a shot for turn 3.

I have a really busy weekend ahead, but will get things posts as quick as I can. Keep those cards and letter coming in folks!! (A nod to all my fellow old guys out there who might actually remember where that came from and what a card and letter is!!)

[htuna]

Maybe I should try an 'easy' game and hopefully heal my bruised ego... I still had a blast with both 'normal' games. just didn't seem like there was enough 'time' in the scenarios.... wondering if I shouldn't bother attempting a GC.. or if it's longer, that would make it more 'doable'

[AZKGungHo]

I'm back after a busy weekend, to very disappointing results! My panzers have slowed WAY down! I don't know if this is a result of supply, or just the higher difficulty level, but they seem a lot slower than they were on Easy that's for sure! Here's turn 3's results, I'm not moving nearly as fast as I wanted to be. But I'm pressing on let Fast Heinz kick my butt hard for stopping!

[FredSanford3]

You need to keep your Corps HQ's within 5 hexes of their subordinate units, or your supply will be AFU. 
 
Expect a solid wall of Soviets on the river and guarding the line from Vitebsk to Gomel.
 
Where's your airfields?

[AZKGungHo]

Here's the next turn. I'm trying to keep my Korps HQ's close, and am just starting to move up my airfields. But things are way slower than they were on Easy, which must be why this isn't called easy!! As you can see I'm barely inching forward, hoping for something better next turn, but I'm beginning to think this is going to a great AAR for people who want to know how NOT to play this scenario!

[hgilmer3]

I just played Smolensk making it my second time to play it through on normal.  You are basically seeing what I saw on my first try.  I pushed most of my infantry divisions into the land between Vitebsk and Smolensk on my last try and that worked a lot better.  I still lost a minor victory, but I actually took Smolensk and was on the outskirts of Vyazma.  I don't know how to beat it yet, though.  I think my strategy is a decent one, though.

[AZKGungHo]

Hey Hgilmer3 - Interesting. I may have to try that again once this is over. I'm going to push ahead and see how it goes. If my panzers weren't so slow right now I wouldn't be having all these problems. Guess I'm going to have to figure out what I'm missing here.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

My suggestion would be to make more effort to get your infantry forward.  If that's the end of your turn, it appears that the 4th and 9th army didn't move much.  I generally breakdown the security divs, and a (very) few of the infantry divs, and thinly screen (2 empty hexes betw. regts. thin) the western edge of the pocket with them. The Soviets can't strike west out of that pocket, so the entire western perimeter is very much an economy of force area. Then use the bulk of the 4th and 9th armies to make the initial border assaults and penetrate as far east as you can with them.  Then, use the infantry from the 2nd & 3rd Panzer groups to make the follow-on attacks at your two pincer points. Use hasty attacks everywhere. Only after you've moved/attacked as far east as your infantry can go do you begin to move the motorized/panzer units. Even then, work from deepest to closest. The panzer divs that start right on the border should be the last units you move, so they can go the furthest in.

Remember where your points are scored- killing the pocketed Russians is very much a secondary task.

Good advice here as far as trying to shove as much infantry forward as possible and the order to move your panzers in.

There are some transitions to be made when moving from easy to normal and it is more than the Russians being tougher.

If you look at the settings under Easy, you will note that the Germans are at 110% across the board on logistics, etc. One of the things this translates into is further movement and less worry about logistics. When you bump it to normal (provided you don't change the other settings) the Germans lose their 10% advantage and the Russians lose their 10% penalty.

[B455]

I just finished this scenario against normal Soviet AI and lost. The AI got a minor victory. Though, had I got one more turn I would have taken Vyazma and Bryansk....just one more turn! I was at outskirts of both cities by the last turn. Don't have figured out yet how to take a screenshot, sorry. Anyway, exiting and enjoyable scenario and the AI, while being very passive (partly because I tried to play as I would play against a human opponent - I didn't leave him much counterattack opportunities) surprised me with actively withdrawing out of situation where large portion of Soviet force would likely be closed into a pocket next turn. Nice game, I like this!

[AZKGungHo]

Okay, I decided to skip ahead a few turns as watching me slog slowly forward is a big bore! Here's the end of turn 9. As you can see I've started moving forward on several narrow fronts, and ought to rename this AAR, "Inching My Way To Smolensk!" Clearly on normal you don't get as much supply and crossing major rivers is a major slowdown!

[AZKGungHo]

Okay, it's over and I lost - HUGE! It was a Soviet Major Victory. I didn't even get Smolensk Guess it's time to check the manual and see what I'm missing. If my panzers hadn't lost their get up and go, I would have done better. There must be different supply rules or something in effect on Normal AI than there is on Easy. Anyway - here's the final screen shot so you can enjoy my humiliation! Better next time!

[FredSanford3]

It's not that there's different rules, it's that 'easy' gives you enough extra advantage that you don't get penalized as badly for ignoring the rules.
 
A key thing with supply to remember is that having your corps hq's close to your forward units is critical at all times, but especially at the end of turn 2 in this scenario.  Your units start with stockpiled fuel, supplies and ammor sufficient for the first two turns, so you'll see plenty of movement capability for your panzers.  After that, you need to rely on the hq's, which is why I pointed that out in post # 7. 
 
Also, fatigue matters.  If your mobile units are doing all the fighting, they're going to get worn out, especially when combined with having supply problems.  Things to try:
-Keep you hq's close to your units (<5 hexes AND <20 mps).
-ALSO, keep your hq's close to your railhead.&nbsp; The manual says 25 hexes/100 mp's, which sounds&nbsp;generous, but effectiveness really falls off&nbsp;with distance.&nbsp; This is a balancing act with the above requirement.
-keep your FBD units advancing your railhead.
-try HQ Buildup for you panzer corps hq's (read up on that- there's tradeoffs involved)
-rest your panzers around turn 3 or 4.&nbsp; It will allow the infantry to catch up, the railhead to catch up, you can do hq buildup that turn to be ready for the next 'big push', and reduce fatigue.
-try aerial resupply for advanced hq's and units.

[AZKGungHo]

Thanks Franklin,

I did some of that, but clearly could have done better. I've used air supply before, and thought about this time but didn't. But it's a good thing to keep in mind.

By the end my rail head was doing well, but my poor panzers were wore out by then. Oh well, nothing ventured nothing gained right? I've learned and will do better next time!

[htuna]

I lost it twice on Normal.. Did the Air Supply thing.. also always keep my HQ's within range... maybe the railheads killed me, but I tried my best to move the repairs as quickly as possible..

Maybe my issues were the Fatigue and Railhead..don't know..

[ParaB]

I lost that scenario four times already on normal difficulty.

Last time I captured Gomel, Mogilev, Vitebsk and Smolensk and still suffered a minor defeat. If at the latest by the end of turn 4 you're not very close to Smolensk you're screwed.