OK admit it, who else has changed their designs

[Litjan]

ORIGINAL: Shark7


Quite the contrary, what I'm going for is not being able to have 200 of each lab due to sticking them on every station that exists.

Even though I hit the cap, and as you can see I have a ton of unused potential, the AI can't/won't do this, so it is still a huge advantage.

This I don´t understand. Why should you not build 200 of each lab - if you so desire? You get research points for only a fraction of your labs anyway! So even if you build 200000000 labs, it will not give you any advantage at all - only a disadvantage, as it costs you upkeep for those labs.

The AI won´t do this - and this is a good thing - because it would not give them any advantage. What you want to do - ideally - is to have EXACTLY enough research labs to use all your potential. Any lab in excess is just a burden without any benefit.

Of course you want to make sure to have a research lab at all the right locations, i.e. "research locations". As far as I know it is enough to have just ONE single lab at those locations, to achieve an empire-wide benefit to this kind of research.

[BigWolfChris]

The issue is, the AI rarely goes close to it's potential IIRC, plus you can quickly dismantle the AI research network with taking out a few stations
With Sharks method, you'll always be at potential (even as it's increasing as the game goes on), plus it will take a much larger effort just to dent his research efforts

And the biggest thing, he has passed the entire maintenance costs off to the private sector

[Data]

there are benefits to both approaches, and solutions to compensate for the eventual problems
in the end, we all choose based on our individual styles....i really like Shark's ideea but i don't follow it
now I'm not even sure it's a bad thing to have but probably it should be fixed.....if it's so easy to do it may discourage new players; or encourage them the wrong way [:)]

[Litjan]

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

The issue is, the AI rarely goes close to it's potential IIRC, plus you can quickly dismantle the AI research network with taking out a few stations
With Sharks method, you'll always be at potential (even as it's increasing as the game goes on), plus it will take a much larger effort just to dent his research efforts

And the biggest thing, he has passed the entire maintenance costs off to the private sector

Ah, I always thought that the mining stations are paid for by the "state". As far as I know your own constructors build them, and you can even order them to be built yourself.

As for "taking out" research stations - yes, that is possible. The majority of my points come from my spaceports, especially in late-game, though. I think it is similiar for the AI? And it might be easier to take out relatively weak mining stations as compared to quite heavily defended starports.

I don´t see anything fundamentally wrong about putting labs on mining stations - if it really is that big of an advantage just teach the AI to do the same (and some weapons to scare of pirates, too!!)

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

The issue is, the AI rarely goes close to it's potential IIRC, plus you can quickly dismantle the AI research network with taking out a few stations
With Sharks method, you'll always be at potential (even as it's increasing as the game goes on), plus it will take a much larger effort just to dent his research efforts

And the biggest thing, he has passed the entire maintenance costs off to the private sector

Yep, you get it.

The two reasons I'm against it after having done it:

1. The AI can't do it, so it gives the player an unfair advantage vs the AI
2. Unlike what Elliot intended, you can put them on the mining stations on the only cost is the initial build cost...you pay no maintenance on your research at all, the private economy does...and as you can see by my screenshot, the private sector can absorb those maintenance costs easily.

[Pipewrench]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

The issue is, the AI rarely goes close to it's potential IIRC, plus you can quickly dismantle the AI research network with taking out a few stations
With Sharks method, you'll always be at potential (even as it's increasing as the game goes on), plus it will take a much larger effort just to dent his research efforts

And the biggest thing, he has passed the entire maintenance costs off to the private sector

Yep, you get it.

The two reasons I'm against it after having done it:

1. The AI can't do it, so it gives the player an unfair advantage vs the AI
2. Unlike what Elliot intended, you can put them on the mining stations on the only cost is the initial build cost...you pay no maintenance on your research at all, the private economy does...and as you can see by my screenshot, the private sector can absorb those maintenance costs easily.

completely on board +1

[caerr]

It does seem kinda cheat-ish to offload research costs to private sector that way, since they usually have way more income than the state has. 100 labs with all the reactor, hab etc. modules factored in have upkeep of ~8500. That's quite significant if you execute this kind of strategy straight from the beginning.

Maybe they should bill for their research hours. [:'(]

[Data]

even if they do bill for it, you can take the cost without a dent....this game is overpowered in many aspects

[BigWolfChris]

The easy fix would be that you can't put labs on civilian ships and bases
Since, I'm quite sure coding exists to limit certain components for them already (1 weapon per civilian ship for example), I'm imagine that would be the easiest and quicker route then limiting them to certain roles

Plus, if want to place them on my defence bases, I gain no advantage with the exception of them being buggers to take down
But then, AI attacks don't really prioritize research bases do that? So you would be then putting labs into the line of fire