Manstein KIA in winter quarters.

[Senno]

Sigh. Roughly halfway between Smolensk and Moscow (X95, Y48), 12 hexes from the front. How many checks did he fail to die in the mud in '41 (I've got the newest update, so wasn't expecting any deaths so far back...)? That's quite the stray shell, lol.

[Q-Ball]

Historically possible, though. Plane Crash, Heart Attack, arrest by Gestapo....all of these actually took Generals off the board, not just enemy action.

[PeeDeeAitch]

Well, remember Schobert (11th Army commander) died in 1941 when his plane landed on a russian minefield...accidents can happen...

[Senno]

True enough I suppose. In a historical game I might expect the dead general to be the general that actually died in '41. More so at least than the a superior general that may be relied on in '42 and on to try to help offset this huge carpet of units bearing down on me. Not to speak of the encroaching winter, which apparently I really can't mitigate the damage from; despite planning ahead, yet I'm down one of my best generals. Perhaps I will be able to hold onto Kharkov and not need his services in '43. Quite frustrating really. Saps the fun out to read one of the best is dead.

[goodwoodrw]

How much of pain does a single loss of a general cause, in real game terms?

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: BASB

How much of pain does a single loss of a general cause, in real game terms?

You may be handicapped but it won't matter that much.
A lot of good German generals can replace him.
Take note that a 1 to 2 point difference in ratings does not drastically change the die roll results.

[Senno]

I'm unsure as yet. I'm at 11/6/41 and the Soviets are crawling towards me to counterattack. I hope not much. 2nd Panzer is all set back off the line in reserve stance ready to counter-attack. I'm just attached to the "name" I suppose...

Anyway, love the game. It's a dream of a lifetime game to me. And the other games in the series are eagerly awaited.

[Mynok]

That's tough luck. The good news is, you can hit Load Scenario to get him back. [;)]

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


That's tough luck. The good news is, you can hit Load Scenario to get him back. [;)]

[:D] That says it all right there Mynok [:D]

[KenchiSulla]

Did anyone ever make a serious count of leader (combat/accident)losses in world war 2 (say division commanders and higher ranked)? I know there is a lot of info but did anyone ever combine it somehow? Would be interesting...

[Zebedee]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Did anyone ever make a serious count of leader (combat/accident)losses in world war 2 (say division commanders and higher ranked)? I know there is a lot of info but did anyone ever combine it somehow? Would be interesting...

German General Officer casualties:

KIA/DoW: 223
Accidental Deaths: 30
Suicides: 64
Executed (by Germany during war): 20
Died in PoW camp: 128
Died of war related illness: 145
MIA: 32

Source: p.85, Folttmann and Moeller-Witten. Opfergang der Generale, Bernard & Graefe, 1959.

[grofaz]

ORIGINAL: BASB

How much of pain does a single loss of a general cause, in real game terms?

In Von Manstein's case historically? A great loss tantamount to loosing Zhukov. Is Manstein's experience modeled accurately in the game? I am not sure, if it is it may well could cost the Axis player the war.

I would mark this as a bug for sure.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: Zebedee

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Did anyone ever make a serious count of leader (combat/accident)losses in world war 2 (say division commanders and higher ranked)? I know there is a lot of info but did anyone ever combine it somehow? Would be interesting...

German General Officer casualties:

KIA/DoW: 223
Accidental Deaths: 30
Suicides: 64
Executed (by Germany during war): 20
Died in PoW camp: 128
Died of war related illness: 145
MIA: 32

Source: p.85, Folttmann and Moeller-Witten. Opfergang der Generale, Bernard & Graefe, 1959.

How many of these General Officer's were CO's of a unit represented in the game at the time of their death? I don't mind the death of German General Mr. Average Stats, or if I leave Manstein to be over-run or some other condition that general carelessness has caused. But well back off the lines, unit or hex not bombed, no enemy units remotely close, no partisans, not so much. I'd be just as concerned about the death of Zhukov 120 miles behind Western Front, as I play both sides vs AI, no PBEM. It's a minor quibble is all.

[Mynok]

All it takes is one guy with a well-aimed pistol. Just ask the Austrians in 1914. [;)]

[bairdlander2]

32 division co's went mia?I find that hard to beleive.

[randallw]

They may have been killed but there were no surviving witnesses; that's one way to end up in the category.

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: randallw

They may have been killed but there were no surviving witnesses; that's one way to end up in the category.

Don't forget an Eastern Front staple:
surrendering to the Soviets and never being heard from again.
see: Stalingrad.

[Pawsy]

Remember Manstein lost his own son by 42, his ADC was killed in a plane crash (landed on a minefield), his driver killed on board the torpedo boat Manstein was using to recce Sevastopol (think 7 of the 14 man crew were killed in the attack on the boat). He, and I dont think he was an exception, had many narrow escapes as did others like Rommel. It could have easily been them.

[Pawsy]

Just to give you a grasp of the scale of non combat casualties

The US airforce suffered 6,351 fatal aircraft accidents with over 15,500 fatalities and the loss of over 7,100 aircraft. "Fatal Army Air Forces Aviation Accidents in the United States, 1941-1945". Imagine the number of non combat related deaths for the scale of war in the east? staggering as were the combat losses.

15000 aircrew and 7100 aircraft just on the continental United States in training in 4 years.

[KenchiSulla]

Thank you for the figures! Interesting and much higher then I expected.