No-brainers?

[gmot]

Okay good - thanks for clarifying.

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: gmot

So using Shark7's example, if I have 2 high-tech research stations in my empire, one at a black hole with 37% bonus and one somewhere "normal", then I would get -

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37)) + 80,000 = 189600 High Tech Research Points for my empire. Correct?

Incorrect. Bonus is applied empire-wide.

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37))* 2 = 219,200 - the bonus from your largest bonus site you have a station at is applied to the SUM TOTAL of your empire research generation for that branch.

Test it yourself. Unless I missed something, that's how it works in RotS.

Note, that DW 1.06 works with points generated on a per-base basis, as Shark described.

[gmot]

Hmm - I will test that as I'm on the latest beta of ROTS. If it behaves like that, that seems rather buggy.

[gargoil]

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

ORIGINAL: gmot

So using Shark7's example, if I have 2 high-tech research stations in my empire, one at a black hole with 37% bonus and one somewhere "normal", then I would get -

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37)) + 80,000 = 189600 High Tech Research Points for my empire. Correct?

Incorrect. Bonus is applied empire-wide.

(80,000 + (80,000 * .37))* 2 = 219,200 - the bonus from your largest bonus site you have a station at is applied to the SUM TOTAL of your empire research generation for that branch.

Test it yourself. Unless I missed something, that's how it works in RotS.

Note, that DW 1.06 works with points generated on a per-base basis, as Shark described.

Incorrect still - but close - you get EMPIRE WIDE all of the bonuses. I am not sure if it can go over 100% though.

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: Gargoil

Incorrect still - but close - you get EMPIRE WIDE all of the bonuses. I am not sure if it can go over 100% though.

What's incorrect?

80k research from each high-tech station
2 high-tech stations
37% high-tech bonus from black hole

How does your calculation differ from mine?

[Shark7]

OK I just did a quick test. The planet/star bonus is a global effect, so what I said earlier is not right. I also found no clear explanation of this in the galactopedia, so unless I just totally missed it, Elliot might want to edit in how the research bonuses work for future reference.

Definitively, if you build at a Black Hole with a 37% energy bonus, and you have 200k of energy research empire wide, then you end up with 268k of empire energy research. In the case of my current game you can combine this with a 25% Republic bonus and a 15% Human bonus so you get a total of a 77% energy bonus.

In that case my 200k turns into (200,000 * 1.77) = 354,000 or 354k energy research.

Also if it is true that this bonus does max out at 100%, there comes a point that building additional research stations in special locations is a moot point. You might even be better off building them all in one area to make them easier to defend (if the AI actually attacked them, which it does not seem to do atm).

[gmot]

Thanks for testing that - you beat me to it.

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Also if it is true that this bonus does max out at 100%...

I'm pretty sure this one is false - the special ruins give +100% research bonus to a particular tree. Also, you get bonuses for repairing derelicts. Not to mention government type WotA which gives, what... +50%? I can't see how the cap is +100% - it's way too easy to hit. I'm pretty sure I've seen bonuses tripling my research at times.

What's the source of this claim?

[Shark7]

Quoting from Gargoil: Incorrect still - but close - you get EMPIRE WIDE all of the bonuses. I am not sure if it can go over 100% though.

I don't think its listed anywhere exactly what the cap is though (if there even is one), just like I have yet to find an explanation in the Galactopedia on exactly how the bonuses are applied.

[Kayoz]

I still have no idea what Gargoil was ranting about.

What's wrong with my calculation? What he said is no different from what I wrote.

Hrmm - I may have to get my crow cook-book out. I loaded up a game and tested it again - now I'm confused. Numbers don't rack up either way. Government and racial bonuses aren't reflected.





Example:
Kuan Research Station has 80 base, so 35% bonus you get 28 bonus points.
360 capacity, 386 actual - so I seem to have lost 2 points somewhere - if the bonus is only applied to the station and not ALL research in that branch.
In that case, where's my racial and government bonus?

Seems to me that something has changed - I'm SURE that I had different results with 1.50. Only way to test, is to roll back - and I'm not too keen on that. Erik wants to check it out, he can do a code review - quicker that way. (current 1.502)

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

I still have no idea what Gargoil was ranting about.

What's wrong with my calculation? What he said is no different from what I wrote.

Hrmm - I may have to get my crow cook-book out. I loaded up a game and tested it again - now I'm confused. Numbers don't rack up either way. Government and racial bonuses aren't reflected.





Example:
Kuan Research Station has 80 base, so 35% bonus you get 28 bonus points.
360 capacity, 386 actual - so I seem to have lost 2 points somewhere - if the bonus is only applied to the station and not ALL research in that branch.
In that case, where's my racial and government bonus?

Seems to me that something has changed - I'm SURE that I had different results with 1.50. Only way to test, is to roll back - and I'm not too keen on that. Erik wants to check it out, he can do a code review - quicker that way. (current 1.502)

One thing I have noticed is that the game needs to run a minute or two before new bonuses show up. I did my test by starting a new game as a starting empire, finding a neutron star and plopping down a research station via the editor, then letting it run a minute or two before checking the research page. All the bonuses were applied at the global level when I checked.

[Data]

One thing I have noticed is that the game needs to run a minute or two before new bonuses show up

the same seems to be true about all areas of the game like new income and others, they do not reflect immediately
it takes time to setup tax collection or research projects, etc

[unclean]

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


Example:
Kuan Research Station has 80 base, so 35% bonus you get 28 bonus points.
360 capacity, 386 actual - so I seem to have lost 2 points somewhere - if the bonus is only applied to the station and not ALL research in that branch.
In that case, where's my racial and government bonus?

Seems to me that something has changed - I'm SURE that I had different results with 1.50. Only way to test, is to roll back - and I'm not too keen on that. Erik wants to check it out, he can do a code review - quicker that way. (current 1.502)

Okay, I think I see how this works, it's:

Energy Research Capacity * Empire Research Potential / Empire Research Capacity * Gov Bonus * Race Bonus * Individual Research Station Bonuses = Actual Output

For Energy research:
360*596/1080*1.25*1.15*1.35=385.54, and it gets rounded up to 386

That works perfectly for Weapons and High Tech in your screen shot too.

So, it looks like anomalies only give a bonus to your Empire Research Potential, the actual points generated aren't effected at all, and you can probably get above a %100 bonus because they aren't additive.

[gargoil]

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

I still have no idea what Gargoil was ranting about.

What's wrong with my calculation? What he said is no different from what I wrote.

Hrmm - I may have to get my crow cook-book out. I loaded up a game and tested it again - now I'm confused. Numbers don't rack up either way. Government and racial bonuses aren't reflected.





Example:
Kuan Research Station has 80 base, so 35% bonus you get 28 bonus points.
360 capacity, 386 actual - so I seem to have lost 2 points somewhere - if the bonus is only applied to the station and not ALL research in that branch.
In that case, where's my racial and government bonus?

Seems to me that something has changed - I'm SURE that I had different results with 1.50. Only way to test, is to roll back - and I'm not too keen on that. Erik wants to check it out, he can do a code review - quicker that way. (current 1.502)

Maybe I misunderstood you. Maybe not. My point is if you have a +35% and a +15% in Weapons research at two different locations, you would get the +50% EMPIRE WIDE.

[unclean]

ORIGINAL: J HG T
I've heard from many players that lots of high tech armor combined with couple of repair-bots can be surprisingly effective, can't say for sure. As I said I'm shield heavy person too. I might test this out with the Ikkuro (unique repair-bots) on some of my next games.

Okay, I've tried stacking armor with the Ikkuro, and I couldn't make it work. It's just bad in a pitched fight since Repair Bots only reduce damage after it gets past the reactive rating on armor, and torpedoes and blasters shred armor way faster than it can get repaired, even if you have higher tech armor than their weapons. For the cost it's just not worth it.

It did stop fighters and missiles from sniping retreating ships after their shields went down, and made for some really mean long range missile destroyers - with a decent reactive rating and some PD they can be nearly immune to long range weapons, and if you add enough engines they can outrange just about anything else. You don't need a lot of armor for either of those though.

So yeah, I can't see a reason for stacking armor, or even using higher tier armor except in a few weird situations. If you can find a way to make it work I'd love to hear it.

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: Gargoil

Maybe I misunderstood you. Maybe not. My point is if you have a +35% and a +15% in Weapons research at two different locations, you would get the +50% EMPIRE WIDE.

AFAIK, no - only the highest bonus is applied. So for one +35% weapons research site and a +15% weapons research site - only the higher (+35%) applies.

Unclean has made sense of the tech points generation - you should read his post above.

[Larsenex]

Just to be clear.... For Armor I should NOT waste my research nor should I put a 'ton' of it on. What would be a safe minimum to put on all ships or Destroyers and up?

[J HG T]

I put 1-5 to destroyers, 5-10 to cruisers and about 10 to capitals. For all bases I use basic desings amount or slightly less. I don't know does it actually matter, but I feel a bit "safer" when my ships have at least some armor. Good shields and ECM are the way to go when I design dedicated combat ships.

[gmot]

I always put a bit of armor with the same reasoning as J HG T. Not logical if it doesn't make any difference, but it makes me feel safer. Which is the whole point of course [:)]

Larsenex, now you need to change your sig to "Go for the eyes Boo! Go for the eyes!"