Soviets - what do you do to organize your army?

[heliodorus04]

I'm starting to play Soviets more against Human opponents - as they say, have good habits!

Even in the Road to Scenarios, I don't have a lot of understanding of how to make my early army more efficient.

I've gathered that it's smart to disband corps HQs.

I'd like to know how you manage all those airfields, and what you do with the parking lot of crappy planes you start with, and how do you understand which aircraft to put where based on both HQ command (in other words, how do I ensure the right HQs are assigned the right kinds of planes) and range (which aircraft are short range, how does a soviet need to use recon, etc.).

Finally, how do you manage rail assets and which factories to move when, versus strategic movement of land units.

Any other advice about Soviets much appreciated.

[Klydon]

From my limited experience with the Soviets (I am still working on learning them), I think a lot of the Soviet play depends on being balanced in what you do for the first couple of turns. By this I mean that while most consider it a good idea to disband Corps HQ, I am guessing there can be a sub conversation on how fast to get rid of them. I also like disbanding the fortified zones that are all too often a gimmie surrender for the Axis. I don't do this with all of them; just the ones that I think are threaten and I will leave one up if I can't get a checkerboard infantry unit to.

For rail, if the Germans have not trapped Minsk, that is your immediate target to pull industry out of on turn 1. The city to the east is a good one as well. Again, I would not go crazy railing out industry on any given turn, because its not necessary, but I think a lot of Soviets do it in theory that it then be safe pretty much no matter what and the sooner you move it, the sooner it will be back on line. Valid points, but you have other things that need to be done with your rail cap imo.

Rail cap can also be very important in moving out endangered units that you want to save like tank/mech divisions. These may not be able to move away and be safe on your turn, but they can rail out. Moving out other units can be helpful as well, but you do have to be mindful of your overall capacity. Saving tank/mech divisions does not seem like a huge deal (and maybe its not; just my theories on why you want to save them), but IMO it is for 2-3 reasons. First is getting especially mech units to a level two fortification someplace (or making one) and then parking it in static. You can get a pile of CP's this way, even if the division is later destroyed (or it will disband on its own after awhile I think). The second is those divisions have a huge pile of trucks (sometimes over 1000 each). Given the overall truck situation for the Soviets, the sooner you work to improve that number, in theory, the easier/better your later offensives will become because you will be able to keep your logistics going better. We are talking 1943+ here, but what you do early has an impact for later. Lastly is that there are several divisions that have T34/KV tanks in them. Some have upwards of 150 T34's. At some point, your T34 production is going to be in the tank as you move the Karkov factory. The more you save early in the game means more tank brigades later and will help bridge that production gap to when your T34 production picks back up. KV production will also be under some pressure as well as you will likely move the KV tank factory out of Leningrad at some point. The other thing to be aware of for rail and using it to move units around for the front is that you don't get an even number of units across the front. Typically, you will have quite a bit to play with in the south in the early going. The center will need some help (Germans are typically the strongest here) and so will the Leningrad area (very few re-enforcements show up here comparatively speaking and you need to account for the Svir river line at something like 11 units and also putting units further to the SW to checkerboard and slow down the German advance towards Leningrad not to mention digging in defenses around Leningrad). I like the idea one of the testers had about putting border regiments up on the Svir river line instead of spending CP's to put in forts like the AI does. You usually have a fair number of border units survive and they are very cheap on your rail cap. I have been reassigning them to Stavka to help with the command situation as well.

For air, I am going to be doing some changes here myself, but I think most toss their aircraft and air formations into the national reserve and let them sit for awhile. I have noticed at least one of the testers mentioned using the crappy fighters in battles of attrition to both clear them out (making the AI more likely to switch to more modern fighters without you having to pay for a air unit to switch) and also cause some losses to the enemy. Even if you lose 1000 crappy fighters, but the Axis lose 100 planes dealing with them, then what have you really lost? Pilots and such are not kept track of in this game, so feel free to sacrifice as many pilots for the cause of Mother Russia as you wish. My initial thoughts are to withdraw most of the air and then reorganize on the flanks. (IE, I want to work over the Rumanian air, although they have some Luftwaffe support and especially the Finns since they are all by themselves and you know they are going to launch an offensive to push the Russians back). I will be looking to conserve my better long term fighters (Yak 1, Lagg 3, Mig 3 and the Yak is the best of those three with Migs not being updated and Lagg's being the worst of the three). In the mean time, I think a lot of the "I" series planes will be headed north along with the SB-2 and AR-2 planes. Your good bombers to start the game are IL-2, IL-4 and PE-2.

Sorry for the book and hopefully this is helpful. [:D]

[Flaviusx]

I would rather rail rifle divisions in the rear forward than try to save mech units in the front, tbh. I actually never rail mech units except for those arriving in the Urals.

Rifle divisions are more important in the long run than the tank divisions which eventually convert over to brigades.

[heliodorus04]

Very helpful.
I don't know anything about Russian aircraft, so I don't know which ones are good to protect and which ones can be thrown into the meat grinder.  Thanks for that info.

One other thing:
In scenarios, factory evacuation is irrelevant, correct?
This seems to be a problem in scenarios in that it gives the Soviet an unrealistic ability to move units by rail, whereas that capacity historically would have been used on factory movement.  If I'm correct that scenarios allow the same basic rail capacity, without factoring for factory movement, I would recommend that get corrected in a future patch - but I don't know if I'm right.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I would rather rail rifle divisions in the rear forward than try to save mech units in the front, tbh. I actually never rail mech units except for those arriving in the Urals.

Rifle divisions are more important in the long run than the tank divisions which eventually convert over to brigades.

Sometimes the written word sucks. My intent was to keep it in mind (to rail out mech/tank units) if you can't otherwise get them out of trouble. I think I have railed 3-4 mech/tank units in the first 3 turns of my game and it was only to save them from almost certain destruction even if they were to use normal movement. I have also hit the disband button on a couple of them I knew I was not getting away, but they were in position that I could move them back enough so they could still disband.

[Flaviusx]

Klydon, honestly, I leave 'em up front.

I do not greatly value the tank divisions, not even the few strong ones in Southwest Front.

I'm not sure about this, but I strongly suspect that if you disband tank divisions, they won't come back as brigades. Probably not a good idea to disband them.

[Klydon]

I need to check this a bit closer then because I thought disbanding them sent the elements back to the pools. While I could care less about trash tanks, I do care about the T34/KV tanks and those trucks. I don't really care if they don't come back as a "free" brigade as I can create more if I understand things correctly.

The other thing to consider I guess (unless I missed on this as well) is making a mech unit static will net you a pile of CP's and the vehicles.

[Flaviusx]

The elements go back to the pool. But t-34 production eventually ramps up to very ample proportions. Taking the longer view, I'd rather keep the possibility of a tank brigade existing, as these can be used to form corps. Equipment isn't a constraining factor in the long run, units are.

One of the reasons I suspect so many players are overvaluing tank divisions is because they played War in Russia. In that game, preserving the tank divisions made sense, because they directly flipped over to corps. In this game it's better to view a tank division as an eventual tank brigade, which you will need 3 of to form a corps. And that corps won't carry over the original toe of either the brigades or divisions, and will mostly lose it's prior combat experience as a result.

[Aurelian]

tm.asp?m=2650748

tm.asp?m=2690379

[Klydon]

Good links by Aurelian.

The tank/mech thing could be something of a personal opinion thing that may not have a "right" or "wrong" answer. (Much like the opinion on paying to disband corps or let them disband on their own). Case in point just to check some stuff out, I put a mech corps (2 tank and 1 mech division) on static. I picked up 4500 vehicles and 45 extra command points. To me, it would appear to be beneficial to try to save some of the tank/mech units and put them in static to get the extra command points/vehicles. I would call it "gamey" probably, but I didn't make the rules. [:D]  Disbanding also saves the vehicles for yourself and keeps them out of German hands if the unit would have been otherwise surrounded and captured. (I assume Germans like captured vehicles as much as anyone else would).

[Flaviusx]

Putting the motorized divisions on static is a good idea and I do this myself. Putting tank divisions on static is less appealing, because reactivating tank brigades is pretty expensive. In the long run it's either AP neutral or barely AP positive. (Whereas motorized yields 10+ APs net when you reactivate them as rifle divisions.)

[KenchiSulla]

I am using the tactic STAND AND FIGHT with my mech units of the southwestern front in my PBEM. Some have decent CV and can cause some attrition to the german Panzers... Anything to slow the fascists down!

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

I am using the tactic STAND AND FIGHT with my mech units of the southwestern front in my PBEM. Some have decent CV and can cause some attrition to the german Panzers... Anything to slow the fascists down!

Do the soldiers under your command know your screen name?
If they do, check morale! [:D]

[randallw]

A quick review of Soviet planes:

Anything with an 'I' to begin the name is outdated

Decently modern fighters to begin the game are the Yak-1, Mig-3, LaGG-3; these are replaced with Yak-9 family, La-5 family, and there are lend lease P-39s and 40s

Older bomber types are TB-3, DB-3, SB-2; I wouldn't call them horrible but their production gets phased out after not too long a time; the TB-3 isn't made at all

The IL-2 will be the mainstay for the Soviet tac bomber force, produced in mass numbers; there's also a decent amount of lend lease B-25s and A-20s

[randallw]

Once the decent quality Soviet planes arrive in significant numbers the limiting factor is air unit experience, which will need to be earned the hard way: through combat.