War Reports from the Eastern Front: Carnage vs Redmarkus

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I should rephrase by what I meant as "offensive". By this I mean not necessarily going for a lot of ground, but certainly killing as many Russian units as you can is desirable, even if your guys are a bit tired. (They will get a chance to rest during mud probably). Right now, he is getting a chance to catch his breath, get lines formed and dig in. If left to his own devices, the Russians are going to look nasty at the end of mud and even worse by blizzard. My point is you want to try to keep the battle as fluid as possible since that more or less favors the Axis. When it becomes static, etc it has a tendency to favor the Russians more.

I agree with all of what your saying and what Big A is saying. But not to shrug off the advice I so desire I think this will be a good look at what prepared defense looks like compared to what Haudrauf and others are showing in their AAR's. I will continue offensive ops in some areas, and push off Red where I can but his defense doesn't help him in the blizzard unless he doesn't plan a whole front offense. The die has been cast for most of my front and my positioning of my mobile groups. I've thought hard on what I want to achieve and for me this is what I think I want to accomplish this winter.

Again, thank you all for you ideas on snow offensives but I can't really change much nor do I really want to in most areas.

[CarnageINC]

By the way I hope doing what I'm doing will not prevent future commentary on my operations. [;)]

[Klydon]

One note on the Kuban bridgehead I see. If you go with your planned bridgehead, you are likely facing a brutal fight to break out in the spring because the terrain he will be on will be from north to south is swamp, swamp, swamp, rough, city. Should you be able to advance it 1 hex forward in each spot, his line would be swamp, clear, swamp, clear, clear, rough and you keep the same 5 hex front with the additional benefit of having the port right there and a urban area to winter in right there. In addition, he will have 3 clear spots where your panzers could help attack and advance out of the bridgehead in the spring which is what it seems like you are setting up to do. If the panzers have to go through a row of swamps or deal with that city to start with in a spring offensive, then I don't know how much of an immediate impact that will have. 

[paullus99]

If you can maintain supply - a strong presence in the Kuban (occupying the likely good defensive terrain for winter) is goin gto cause your opponent to end of grief. His defenses to the north could become unhinged & you can threaten multiple axis for the Summer 1942 campaign.

I would continue to look for ways to bleed him.

[timmyab]

Personally I would also push harder in the Kuban bridgehead, even if it means dispatching a small panzer corps down there immediately.I believe he's only got 4 turns of blizzard in that zone, I wouldn't give him a chance to push me back over the Kerch strait and if you can prevent him making a fortified death zone out of all those swamp hexes during the winter, then you'll have a good early jumping off position for the 1942 campaign.
Having said that, I'm not sure what the supply position is down there, (haven't got that far yet).Presumably Novorossiysk is key to the whole operation?How much supply can you draw through a port like that?Can the Soviet airforce or navy threaten the supply lines?

[CarnageINC]

Turn 17 is done and gone, next week the mud starts [:(]

[CarnageINC]

Again Red does it once more. He pulls back the infantry units back across the river without me having to fight for them. The north part of the line is set for the winter if they can hold. I want to get more depth in the east side to try and hold off Red from liberating Leningrad if at all possible. A tall order and one I really don't think I can achieve because of lack of divisions in the area.

Novgorod has become a total pain in the arse! I can't unseat him for nothing.

[CarnageINC]

Here the front has gone quite. I'm making a few determined attacks where I can, but most of his line is level 3 and 4. The only thing I'm really doing is finding the biggest offensive units and punching them in the mouth when I can. Trying to bleed them good but its really only on a limited scale. South of here in the Sumy Front I'm having much more success than here at pushing off his units. The area between 6th and 17th Armee has pushed forward toward Kharkov but I fell back to my start lines hoping he will come forward so I can beat him over the head again and bleed more units down.

[CarnageINC]

Here the front is broken down for Red. This was my objective, to prevent any hard drive toward the crimean landbridge. I think this will weaken his whole southern offensive unless he gets a boat load of new troops he can throw in here. If so then it will cause the entire front to weaken.

[CarnageINC]

Believe it or not this one has me worried more than any other front. I fear that Red is going to do a blizzard air assault or a amphibious landing behind me. I hate to dedicate a whole panzer corps to watch over it but I think that's what I'm going to have to do. I'm sending both FBD units in the south to start building track down here. I'm 29 MP away from any rail head so I expect to be isolated in the mud but I don't think he can try any offensive here.

A additional note I'm reconing his ports and airfield closely to see if I can detect any build up that would signal a imminent invasion.

For an amphibious invasion, does he need a clear port to invade or just landing anywhere will work? He probably needs a port to get supplies in.

[Flaviusx]

Nicely done there in the south.

Not taking Novgorod sucks. That's going to haunt you unless you can somehow nab that place during the snows; doubtful. Keeping Leningrad blockaded just got a lot tougher.

I notice you are stripping AGC of armor. Massing for a snow offensive or going into winter quarters?

[Klydon]

Excellent in the south. That is going to be a lot of dead cav divisions that he will miss making into cav corps for the blizzard.

For Leningrad, the attack on Novgorod makes a ton of sense. What I don't quite understand is the purpose behind the attacks further north up the line. What purpose do they serve? It is not like you have extra troops to follow up there even if you kick him out. Your single unit there is very vulnerable because it can be attacked by so many hexes. Do you have any plans on his units west of the Volkov? Those are the ones I would be really concerned with and where he would likely launch an assault. I also don't get giving up the city hexes either. You can now hold those thinly for the most part and he gave you two urban hexes to winter in.

In the center, my guess is you are going to have to fall back from Moscow or he will give you a big time shove back that you won't like (that might happen anyway). I think working around Rzhev will help, but preparing to fall back is not a bad idea to shorten up your lines. I would be digging at least 3 deep here if you can. Moscow is the center of where a lot of troops seem to congregate, so it makes sense he would toss them into battle from there rather than move them someplace else.

The big thing in the Crimea is to guard the ports and probably drop a fort on the hexes next to them. If you have a port guarded and he tries an amphib, he may be able to get the port the hard way, but if you have it where he can't even land next to a port, my guess is he won't try anything. Far too easy to send a fire brigade and he would lose the troops to surrender isolation. Of course if you take the port where you are at, it helps your situation too, but that may not be possible. If nothing else, you certainly got his attention in this area. [:D]

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Nicely done there in the south.

Not taking Novgorod sucks. That's going to haunt you unless you can somehow nab that place during the snows; doubtful. Keeping Leningrad blockaded just got a lot tougher.

I notice you are stripping AGC of armor. Massing for a snow offensive or going into winter quarters?

Novgorod is something I'm going to have to bleed for to get [:(] As far as 2nd Panzer Group, I'm sending them to winter quarters behind 6th and 17th Armee.

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Excellent in the south. That is going to be a lot of dead cav divisions that he will miss making into cav corps for the blizzard.

WOOT! [:'(]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

For Leningrad, the attack on Novgorod makes a ton of sense. What I don't quite understand is the purpose behind the attacks further north up the line. What purpose do they serve? It is not like you have extra troops to follow up there even if you kick him out. Your single unit there is very vulnerable because it can be attacked by so many hexes. Do you have any plans on his units west of the Volkov? Those are the ones I would be really concerned with and where he would likely launch an assault. I also don't get giving up the city hexes either. You can now hold those thinly for the most part and he gave you two urban hexes to winter in.

My idea further up the line is to try and create more depth. I have 2 more divisions coming before the blizzard hits. But first Novgorod has to...HAS TO fall. Now that you mentioned the two urban hexes, that would be a great place for my armor to setting in ...same for Novgorod...so that also frees up some troops!

As far as Volkvo I don't really have the strength there to launch any assaults. The best I'm hoping for is to keep Leningrad isolated from getting any new units in there. Depending on the rest of the front, I'm still sending all new divisions to the area to hold Red back.

ORIGINAL: Klydon

In the center, my guess is you are going to have to fall back from Moscow or he will give you a big time shove back that you won't like (that might happen anyway). I think working around Rzhev will help, but preparing to fall back is not a bad idea to shorten up your lines. I would be digging at least 3 deep here if you can. Moscow is the center of where a lot of troops seem to congregate, so it makes sense he would toss them into battle from there rather than move them someplace else.

Hmm...good thinking stuff there. I might throw in another defensive fort position behind them. As far as falling back I'm going to try and make him work for it. I think the terrain is okay for defense. If building forts doesn't hold him back for long I'll be forced to shorten up lines everywhere.

ORIGINAL: Klydon

The big thing in the Crimea is to guard the ports and probably drop a fort on the hexes next to them. If you have a port guarded and he tries an amphib, he may be able to get the port the hard way, but if you have it where he can't even land next to a port, my guess is he won't try anything. Far too easy to send a fire brigade and he would lose the troops to surrender isolation. Of course if you take the port where you are at, it helps your situation too, but that may not be possible. If nothing else, you certainly got his attention in this area. [:D]

Wouldn't an amphibious landing be able to blow past fortified region? I have a bazzilion questions on amphibious landings. Do they have MP's after they land, are they isolated unless they have a port, can they land on a opposed hex.

I'm half tempted to withdraw most of my division from Kuban and send them back near the land bridge. I would rather have veteran divisions for 42 than inexperienced ones. I don't know if it really worth a offensive in this area in 42. I can't build rail once over the straight so that will limit any panzer from going very far. Ahgggg....decisions decisions.

[PeeDeeAitch]

One thing about the Kuban/Crimea - it is European weather I believe, so it sees mitigation of the Blizzards (and less mud) than does further north.

[karonagames]

FWIW, I would be thinking about sending my Mountain divisions and Brigades to Hold the Kuban and possibly making spoiling attacks during the blizzard with them. If you can stay east of Kerch through the Blizzard I think would be a good thing.

Edit your will get 4-5 turns of Blizzard down there, but other wise it is snow, and you will be Clear in May, So you have a real opportunity to kick start a southern offensive subject to supply limitations - I forget who much you can pull in via the ports.

[ComradeP]

The amphibious threat could be substantial and Black Sea amphibious capabilities might very well be too high. The Black Sea fleet constantly degraded in quality after its repair facilities in Sevastopol and to a lesser extent Novorossiysk were captured by the Axis. If the Soviets can, say, simply drop 3 Rifle divisions in Kerch, thus cutting everything off, that's a problem and not something you can easily protect yourself against in the blizzard.

[paullus99]

That's not a bad idea - unless he thinks he needs them further north to hold key terrain features, but holding a good bridgehead here does open up quite a few possibilities for the summer.

Thoughts on what he should do during the pre-blizzard snow? More spoiling attacks or just more battening down the hatches?

[karonagames]

As noted previously, because I don't suffer from "Blizzard Fright", I would be going "Balls to the Wall" to push well past the Orel/Kursk/Kharkov/Belgorod line, so I would have a blizzard "buffer" to retreat through and then anchor my Alamo line on the aforementioned cities

I think to stop attacking through the Mud and Snow gives up the initiative before you have to, but I fully understand that one's first First Winter is scary and mistakes can cost you a lot of troops.

[Klydon]

I think (would have to test it with a scenario maybe) that if Novorossiysk is captured, that reduces his shipping/amphib capability in the Black Sea. (So another reason to capture if you can).

Carnage can maybe do some checking on Soviet abilities by loading up say a 1943 campaign as the Russians and checking the amphib ability to get a rough idea. I don't think its a ton. He can probably land a division or two and also answer some of his own questions as far as movement left (guessing no) and also how good they may attack. In the real war, I don't think they made any opposed landings.

[paullus99]

Very good point - if you know you're probably going to give ground, why not push as far forward as possible & have a buffer to fall back on (and not be forced to give up key terrain or cities).