Attacking Panzer Units

[Misconduct]

Can someone gimmie some help on this, tried sending in B-17's and Dive bombers, I just get creamed by flak, usually around 20-25 losses

[JeffroK]

I usually use the mediums to hit LCU, flying at between 10-15kft to be above AAA.

You will also find they need a good escort, my B25 & B26 usually go down like flies.

My second option is to use Typhoons, come in at 10kft and they dive onto the target, good at hit and run on coastal based LCU.

[Dobey455]

I almost always use fighter bombers in a dive bombing attack. Its the same as airfields, you really need good recon and hit where the flak is lightest. Along with Panzer, infantry and Artillery you'll also kill AA guns. Where flak is heavy use heavies from about 20,000 or tougher fighters such as the typhoon or kittyhawk.

(I also put a lot of effort into hitting the Armaments industry at the same time. Kind of an experiment in my current game.)

My goal is gradual attrition of ground forces rather than trying to obliterate them.

Basically in game the ground war works in several stages something like this:

1) Initial invasion (Avalanche or Overlord)
2) German fighting retreat to main defensive line.
3) Allied breakout (breaching of MDL)
4) Fighting retreat to second defensive line.

And this cycle then repeats.

The date of the initial invasion and the breakout attempt is out of your control and generall occurs pretty close to the historical dates, usually within a week or at most two.
No matter how hard you smash the enemy you won't change the date of the landing or the breakout attempt. That is dictated by ground combat and logistic factors that, as Air command, you have nothing to do with.

What you CAN change is how fast the enemy is pushed back to their next defensive line.

For example if you start the 1943 long campaign and make no ground attack missions, then when avalance starts you will see something like "Allies Invade Italy.....ITALY SURRENDERS.....29th Pz Division delays allied advance!" or something similar.
To reinforce this, the icon of the relevant formation will remain defiantly on the toe of Italy for about 2 or 3 days before falling back. Normally I have not put much effort into ground support, but in my latest game I have made a real effort to attrite the German forces in Italy. The allied invasion was not delayed at any point up until the Gustav line this time. Currently most of the German divisions are at about 1/2 to 2/3 there starting assault value. What effect this will have on the advance to the Gothic line will remain to be seen when the breakout comes in a couple of months (Currently in mid NOV 1943 in my current game).

[Misconduct]

Ahh I figured out a few things, one how to change aircrafts - I beat the first Avalanche Campaign in 20 turns as allies - biggest issue I figured out was how to upgrade aircraft and move them -
took over an hour to find out the Grey airfields are not operational and White ones are.

Was glad to get rid of the darn A-36 Apaches and upgrade to Typhoons

[JeffroK]

Warning.

Despite your best efforts to get the best aircraft, the computer will make its own "upgrades" and assign aircraft according to its own plan.

(No 2 on my hate after a lack of editor)

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Warning.

Despite your best efforts to get the best aircraft, the computer will make its own "upgrades" and assign aircraft according to its own plan.

(No 2 on my hate after a lack of editor)

No kidding, I was upgrading squadrons, and a few times I recall the computer decided to upgrade some of my squadrons for me, usually it means the computer "downgraded" - from a P-38J to Spitfire VC or something.

I really wish this game had an editor, I wasn't sure if it did or not when I bought it, but one can only hope maybe matrix can do a remake later on and call it Eagle Day 2.

Hey AE finally came out, with an editor, might just be down the road...in a few weeks.

[Dobey455]

As a note to the above, the computer will only auto upgrade units that you have not previously upgraded manually. If you manually upgrade a unit early on, or change it back after the computer upgrades it then it will never again upgrade that unit.

I'd becareful though with German night fighters, as I believe some of them need to auto upgrade to be able to convert to day fighters later in the war. (Could be wrong, I mainly play allies in BTR).

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Dobey

As a note to the above, the computer will only auto upgrade units that you have not previously upgraded manually. If you manually upgrade a unit early on, or change it back after the computer upgrades it then it will never again upgrade that unit.

I'd becareful though with German night fighters, as I believe some of them need to auto upgrade to be able to convert to day fighters later in the war. (Could be wrong, I mainly play allies in BTR).

I have a quick Q Dobey, I just finished a pair of month/ 2 month long campaigns - was curious where to start next for a full size campaign.

[Dobey455]

I guess it depends on what you are looking for and how comfortable you are with the game. Also if you prefer BOB or EDTBTR. I used to play the original BTR and always played the 700 turn game as allies. Of course this resulted in dozens of restarts as I was learning.

It looks like most people like the BOB side at the moment, Im guessing because it is quicker to play. But im not in a rush with this game. I find its one that I just keep comming back to, so I would recommend either the 1943 or 1944 BTR game.

My personal impression is that the AI is better at defence than attack. But I haven't spent long enough as the Luftwaffe to be sure.

EDIT - Just re-read your post. Were you referring to which scenario you should look at or were asking about tactics and force set-up

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Dobey

I guess it depends on what you are looking for and how comfortable you are with the game. Also if you prefer BOB or EDTBTR. I used to play the original BTR and always played the 700 turn game as allies. Of course this resulted in dozens of restarts as I was learning.

It looks like most people like the BOB side at the moment, Im guessing because it is quicker to play. But im not in a rush with this game. I find its one that I just keep comming back to, so I would recommend either the 1943 or 1944 BTR game.

My personal impression is that the AI is better at defence than attack. But I haven't spent long enough as the Luftwaffe to be sure.

EDIT - Just re-read your post. Were you referring to which scenario you should look at or were asking about tactics and force set-up

Like you just to jump into the large campaign and restart a few times so I can learn the game, I really enjoy BTR very much, so far its exactly what I have been looking for a very long time. I used to play Secret weapons of the luftwaffe and always wished there was a game close to it!

[Dobey455]

Well, very best of luck to you.

For a first pointer my advice would be as follows:

For allies: FOCUS pick your strategy and focus on that. Your strategy might (and should) evolve as the war progresses, but always have a goal in mind for each mission.

For axis: The bobmer will always get through. Your goal is not to turn back today's mission, but to hurt the allies to the point that the cant fly tomorrow. Hit the allies where they are weak and be creative and smart with your tactics. (ie a single squadron, intercepting early, will make most of the escorts drop their tanks and have to break off sooner. Etc.)

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Dobey

Well, very best of luck to you.

For a first pointer my advice would be as follows:

For allies: FOCUS pick your strategy and focus on that. Your strategy might (and should) evolve as the war progresses, but always have a goal in mind for each mission.

For axis: The bobmer will always get through. Your goal is not to turn back today's mission, but to hurt the allies to the point that the cant fly tomorrow. Hit the allies where they are weak and be creative and smart with your tactics. (ie a single squadron, intercepting early, will make most of the escorts drop their tanks and have to break off sooner. Etc.)

I have a few ideas in mind, first for either side you must knock out the radar sites, I noticed without Radar it seems the AI doesn't respond so well. I need to do alot more reading because so far I am usually splitting even or having heavy losses from aircraft. So far I average around 3/4 to 1 ratio in aircraft lost and its unacceptable.

[JeffroK]

I tried an "Iron Hand" approach, it works for a bit but requires a lot of maintenance to keep them down.

Plus the long range/high level Radar has a pretty good reach.

Keeping down the radar should allow a pretty safe attack on coastal belt targets, some like the V weapons are valuable.

As for losses, in the first months I hope for 1-1, however accept anything better than 2-1, lots of ups and downs day by day and 8USAAF doesnt go further that the Ruhr. Best is getting a Luftwaffe base with plenty of planes and smash it (Schipol is a regular target)

This is really a long term game, chewing small bites, no Midway in the ETO.

[Dobey455]

Absolutely right.

You CAN go further than the rhur, but really, there are few targets that are worth the losses considering there are so many high value targets in the Rhur, which is in range of P-47D-6 escorts.
One that I DO hit is the 60 size rubber plant in Germany. Rubber is one of the few industries that you can realistically cripple in 1943.


But you are correct that it is a long term attritional battle against the Luftwaffe. You aren't going to hit one or two airbases and put them out of commission.
I also aim to hit the coastal radar. There are too many to blind them all, but hit the coastals, and at least you can reduce their warning time.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Dobey

Absolutely right.

You CAN go further than the rhur, but really, there are few targets that are worth the losses considering there are so many high value targets in the Rhur, which is in range of P-47D-6 escorts.
One that I DO hit is the 60 size rubber plant in Germany. Rubber is one of the few industries that you can realistically cripple in 1943.


But you are correct that it is a long term attritional battle against the Luftwaffe. You aren't going to hit one or two airbases and put them out of commission.
I also aim to hit the coastal radar. There are too many to blind them all, but hit the coastals, and at least you can reduce their warning time.

So far I have trashed the entire normandy area, moving more towards higher targets in denmark and such - since operation overlord is taking advantage I can't hit key targets right now I feel are more suitable.
Bomber command I use to trash the Panzer Units by night, and Typhoons by day. Usually by just using the Bomber command against the Ground targets, none get shot down, however the losses are making me question using them.

Far as the air battle, I am getting around 2:1 just escorting bombers to key targets, which has been quite nice. I think once a few units get experience they seem to fair better then the Germans do, I notice lately I only run into 109s and a few FW's