Solved (recon problem 1.03-2)

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

But successful recon flights SHOULD ALSO have to have SOME positive results showing immediately in a DL gain. And this air recon info update does not happen at the moment when flying recon on ground units sitting next to mine in clear terrain.

Successful recon flight always have positive result. Recon is already too powerful, don't think it needs any boost. Imho, max DL 4 when you can get the type of the unit is high enough for the recon.

I have no problem at all if developers decided to curve down DL gain by air recon. I might even like that. Do you have info we don't have? Was this just an air recon change that failed to get into the patch notes?

I only reported this changed air recon behaviour because it - well - changed without warning.

[Helpless]

There was no changes for the recon calculations except one bug fix:

Fixed a problem that in some situations was causing air recon to reduce the detection level of enemy units.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

There was no changes for the recon calculations except one bug fix:

Fixed a problem that in some situations was causing air recon to reduce the detection level of enemy units.

Well then we might be confronted with the situation that this fix did not reduce reduction of air recon DL gains but caused a maximum reduction of air recon DL gains (down to zero DL gains on ground units).

[Helpless]

Personally I see no anomalies with recon flights. All they quite effective when done with experienced groups which are passing the check. There was no changes on the DL gains side.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Personally I see no anomalies with recon flights. All they quite effective when done with experienced groups which are passing the check. There was no changes on the DL gains side.

My air recon target, a Cav Div in clear terrain:

I fly recon 5 times, zero gain. Before the patch this would have been a DL of 10... But it is still DL 5. Then I move an Inf Div next to this Cav, and DL goes up to 10. Come on, no anomaly?

[Helpless]

DL is 5, you can't get more than 4. WAD.

[Redmarkus5]

reconvert - don't you know by now that there are no bugs in this baby? (LOL)

Helpless - I would be happy with the fix you described - no multiple DL increases for moving units in and out of ZOC.

Maybe you could think about the other ideas for WiTE 2.0?

[Reconvet]

Ok, mea culpa, you made me dig into the manual again.

13.1.1. AIR RECONNAISSANCE AND DETECTION LEVEL
For non-air base units, air reconnaissance can raise detection levels up to a maximum of four as follows:
Maximum Detection level 1: Non-Air base units located in non-clear terrain further then 3 hexes from supplied enemy units.
Maximum Detection level 2: Non air base units located in non clear terrain and not adjacent to enemy units.
Maximum Detection level 4: Non-air base units located in clear terrain

I could swear I could raise DL above 4 in clear terrain until this patch. So this fix of DL reductions might have fixed my DL increases above DL 4 too. [8D]

Thanks for your patience, I promise I'll consult the manual sooner next time. [&o]

[Redmarkus5]

so it's just the move units = increase DL, issue that remains, correct?

[Helpless]

so it's just the move units = increase DL, issue that remains, correct?

It is not an issue that DL increase, there could be question how much it is increasing. I'd say having max DL without actual combat should be very complicated or impossible. But this would be a new rule rather than a bug fix.

[Reconvet]

Yep. I'm very surprised I can the DL level from 5 to 10 by moving an Inf Div next to this Cav Div. Many German units may be top notch, but getting max DL right after a forced march seems a bit much.

Well, maybe flying recon over a unit which is already above max air detection level may still have it's merits, even if the rewards it reaps are not visible. To me at least. [;)]

Helpless may be aware of some other manual sections which have not yet found their way into novice brains. [:D]

[Redmarkus5]

So the DL increase when you move a unit into and out of the ZOC and back again only happens after an air recon? Not at other times?

Does the air record need to be on the exact hex, or just in the general area?

[Baron von Beer]

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

So the DL increase when you move a unit into and out of the ZOC and back again only happens after an air recon? Not at other times?

Does the air record need to be on the exact hex, or just in the general area?

It happens regardless of air recon. Move a rifle division away and back, and the DL could go up. Moving into a hex adjacent to an enemy unit triggers this.

[Joel Billings]

Sure, spend more MPs, do more recon.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

So the DL increase when you move a unit into and out of the ZOC and back again only happens after an air recon? Not at other times?

Does the air record need to be on the exact hex, or just in the general area?

DL goes up when another unit of yours arrives in the ZoC, not when one moves away (though moving your unit away and back into the hex neighbouring the enemy unit does the job too). There just has to be new ground traffic into the ZoC to get more than what you saw at turn start, if there was air recon or not. That's at least what I'd assume, as I didn't proceed to turn 2 yet.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Sure, spend more MPs, do more recon.

Hardly the neatest way to represent patrolling though. I can't imagine that this is actually a 'design feature', not with hundreds of units on the game board.

[Joel Billings]

We didn't feel it required a change, or a special patrolling option. For someone that wants to get a higher DL, they are free to do it. Sometimes the simple solution is best because it's good enough and prevents having to add additional layers of rules/complexity.