War Reports from the Eastern Front: Carnage vs Redmarkus

[Flaviusx]

You got your buffer for free, Carnage. Don't be too disappointed. Had you not created at least the threat of an offensive, your lines would be much further west. You did the right thing.

[CarnageINC]

Moscow is quite, i've been trying to make some spoiling attacks but he's dug in deep here.

[CarnageINC]

Kursk front, here is where he started shifting toward the east again. I called off Zeus, there really was no point to it anymore since I got my buffer zone in. I'm doing a general offensive trying to get more space but I don't expect much out of it. My panzers were to far back to really dig into him.

[CarnageINC]

Again here Red moved back far enough to prevent me from attacking. His defense has changed in nature, no more linear lines for him! He's going carpet style now [X(].

[CarnageINC]

Once more he pulled back. I have a real good buffer to my main D line here.

[CarnageINC]

The currently quiet Crimean front, I'll leave 1 Corps by the land bridges and the other is going north to be backup.

[Flaviusx]

Yes, I'm amused at this belated attack of common sense in terms of defensive doctrine. So much for the morality and ethics of gaming.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Yes, I'm amused at this belated attack of common sense in terms of defensive doctrine. So much for the morality and ethics of gaming.

I think he has reached his goal of losses. Here is where his test is going to start. He wants to see how well a beat down Soviet army will do during the first offensive. I expect from here on out that he will use the best defensive tactics he can employ. It did make for a interesting winter offensive set up.

[Flaviusx]

I can understand the desire for creating test conditions. And if it was put into those kinds of scientific terms, then I would applaud it. It was the sanctimony that rubbed me the wrong way.

[Q-Ball]

This is the first AAR that I have seen go beyond the Historical acheivement. Well, the big part is you cleared the Crimea, THAT is a huge improvement.

Why he would pull back from the Donbas cities is a mystery. At this point, it's the GERMANS that want a shorter line; as the Soviet, I would love to have crazy curves and salients in the line.

Cities are the only terrain down there that are helpful in Winter, and he is giving you 2 hexes that should be easy to defend, even with Romanians.

PS: I hope you're picking up those Fortified Zones once the Blizzard Hits......

[bwheatley]

Can you post a loss report carnage? Also i think you might want to rethink your northern leningrad defense. Those stacks are going to be mauled by the soviets and winter. I'd try to keep some units back in cities. You could probably hold that line for 1-3 turns if you thin it out a bit. If you can keep rotating corps up from the city after a few turns rest and pulling beat down units out to rest. You might do better. Just a thought.

great aar btw

[Klydon]

Interesting and more interesting.

Some observations: I know its tough, but I would be digging a second line any place you can and even a third if you can do it. If you don't, once he kicks you off your main line, you have nothing to fall back on.

Also, I don't have the game handy at the moment, but case in point with your HQ's up by Leningrad; they also have manpower, etc and I would think you would want them in towns if you can to help cut down on the manpower attrition in them.

I would also try to kick him back across the Volkov. That is a dangerous area and he is likely going to attack there considering he is stacked 3 deep there and to the south of the lake.

[PeeDeeAitch]

Lots of empty dots (towns) around - even the 1 pop towns have a 25% chance of sheltering a unit from weather effects (if I read the manual right). Every town should have a division on it, the 3 and 4 pop ones (75 and 100% chance of mitigating effects) for sure, any unit there can stay warm in the saunas and thermal pools.

[Q-Ball]

One thing interesting: Carnage I think played a pretty good game, and Redmarkus broke every defensive rule in the book. Result?

Historical.

It takes a skill mis-match to produce this. If opponents are evenly matched, it looks very tough for the Axis.

I am going to try AXIS PBEM and see. I have been playing Carnage as Soviets.

[bwheatley]

is this game over??

[janh]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
One thing interesting: Carnage I think played a pretty good game, and Redmarkus broke every defensive rule in the book. Result?

Historical.

It takes a skill mis-match to produce this. If opponents are evenly matched, it looks very tough for the Axis.

Sounds very true -- getting the first year or two of the Russian campaign to play out anywhere near historic progress/battles should require the Axis player to be very good while the Russian one has to make many beginners mistakes. Makes real sense as the Germans by that time, and command in particular, were extremely well-trained and war-proven. Not to mention their new tactics and operational doctrines, that no enemy army had yet devised countermeasures against. The Russian army, officers and staffs, on the other hand, were barely 2 years past the last of Stalin's cleansing (1937-39), and a lot of veterans and experienced officers were no more. So there was definitely a huge difference in skill on both sides, which made up for the numerical inferiority of the Axis.

So I guess it would be a very good sign for the accuracy of WitE if only in this kind of mismatch any near historical result would be possible, and between two veterans playing with hindsight the German should have very tough going, or even face failure much earlier than 45.

[notenome]

The problem Janh is that player skill does not impact the tactics and combat doctrines, which is where the Germans were most superior. What you as the player influence are logistics, organization, operations and strategy. Though the Germans also had an edge in those categories at the wars beginning, none of them were the strong suits of the Wehrmacht except maybe operational planning and execution. The allure of playing the Wehrmacht is precisely to attempt to rectify or at least improve on those areas. That PBEM games have strongly favoured the Soviet side is imho more due to a) player inexperience, and the soviets are markedly easier to play b) not enough modelling of the advantages the Wehrmacht had over its Soviet counterparts and c) first winter rules which may be excessively strict in crippling the Axis army no matter what.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

One thing interesting: Carnage I think played a pretty good game, and Redmarkus broke every defensive rule in the book. Result?

Historical.

It takes a skill mis-match to produce this. If opponents are evenly matched, it looks very tough for the Axis.

I am going to try AXIS PBEM and see. I have been playing Carnage as Soviets.

Some caveats are in order here:

1. The situation in the Crimea and Kuban unfolded in decidedly ahistorical fashion. Carnage is way ahead of the game down here.

2. Redmarkus ditched his deliberately obtuse defense in the last few turns. And that makes a pretty big difference. Carnage could have savaged the entire southern defense had Redmarkus stuck to his guns, as it were, with very major strategical consequences.

I don't know exactly why he chose this arbitrary point to do so, but that's neither here nor there.

[veji1]

Flavius, I think he is being honest in his "role playing", and he thinks that by now the Soviets have been chastised enough, and that by now they would have learned their lessons and started reacting better... And he doesn't want to suffer a crippling endgame type of defeat, which I can understand.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Can you post a loss report carnage? Also i think you might want to rethink your northern leningrad defense. Those stacks are going to be mauled by the soviets and winter. I'd try to keep some units back in cities. You could probably hold that line for 1-3 turns if you thin it out a bit. If you can keep rotating corps up from the city after a few turns rest and pulling beat down units out to rest. You might do better. Just a thought.

great aar btw

I'll make a through posting next turn just before the blizzard hits so we can do a comparison of losses.