But the Iraqi's were terrified of the A10 and Apache ...
After an A-10 mistakenly "lit-up" a Marine LAV killing its crew, we ALL were afraid of them.
This reminds me of when I came back to my company after being on leave I noticed everyone was quiet. I asked what was up and found out the entire company including myself since I came back was on lockdown because a round fired from a 50 Cal. at the armory when it was supposed to be unloaded. I was told the round fired and struck a wall next to one of my platoon mates.
We were confined to barracks a solid week. It sucked.
After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!
ilovestatergy:
Reminds me of when I arrived back at base, stuck in the nose turret of a P4M Mecator. Had twin 20mm cannons next to me also jammed. The Ordnanace crew came out to get me out and grabbed the weapons to pull the turret free, both cannons fired, through the hangar in front of the line, through two tails of sister squadrons A/C, out the other side and plowerd into a hill. It wasn' funny then but it is now, the look on the ordnance mans face when they went off next to his head. BY the way he was ready to kill me, til he realized I was jammed with my head pointed to the ground and could not get at the weapons from that position, to clear same.
Planner3 (aka Chief)
"As Pogo said, 'We have met the enemy and he is us' "
Would not surprise me at all that we would agree to this. But if IIRC, if the other party does not follow the conventions then the other warring party is not bound by them either. Not that we would ever be allowed to do that.[8|]
Do you think the Iraqi's might have done better had they not dug in their armor forces as static pillboxes or would the thermals/FC and air support have still been too much?
Our M1a1's and Brads would have ate them for lunch. No contest. I would trust our Apaches more than the air support. I know the one time I had the AUX radio monitoring the FAC radio freq, he requested air support for such and such grid, the response, "neg air support this time, diverted to priority target"........what that was, you got me. Then the Apaches arrived.
We were worried about the Brads, but discovered pretty quick that it was a really good vehicle. Will turn a BMP to swiss cheese and even do a number on a T55. Our TOW2 would have killed the T72. The Iraqi's just did not have the range to engage us effectively. We would have chewed them up if they came out to fight. 73 Easting was the best chance they had, extremely low visibility. Drizzle, sand storm all at the same time. Hard as that is to believe. I think our contact report was at 800 meters. Way, way too close. I know my Brad popped a BMP at about 50 meters in a wadi. It was battle sight all the way. Point and shoot, the moment the gunner said "can not identify" because the BMP filled the entire sight picture. It was really something to see when those 25mm sabot rounds started hitting that close. Scared the hell out of me. Came around a corner and there he was. All told there were 3 BMP and 4 BTR60 in that wadi.
But also remember that an ACR is a bunch of teeth. My Squadron had 43 M1a1HA (heavy armor) and 42+ Brads, 12 M109 155mm SP guns assigned. If I remember correctly. I think there was 150 M1a1, 150 Brads and 24 M109, 24 Cobra's assigned to the Regiment proper. Then we had 210 FA brigade, an engineer BN, and a Apache BN assigned to us. Not sure what else. All told about 16,000 soldiers assigned to the Dragoon Battle Group. All led by a Bird Colonel that answered to the Corp commander and no one else. Memory fuzzy though, but I think that is correct.
I do know an ACR can take on and defeat anything this side of 3-1 odds. Hands down. We be the elite of the Armor Forces.
... I do know an ACR can take on and defeat anything this side of 3-1 odds. Hands down. We be the elite of the Armor Forces.
Just don't deploy them on peace-keeping missions [;)]
Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.[center][/center]
[center]"The Angel of Okinawa"[/center]
Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II
"Point and shoot, the moment the gunner said "can not identify" because the BMP filled the entire sight picture..."
Dear Lord that's awfully close! [X(]
I would prefer to never see any US soldier deployed in any "peace-keeping" operation. Not unless the ROE say "see a person with gun, shoot that person on sight, lethal force can be used once the rock throwing starts". I saw a Somali sling a rock that hit a US soldier in the face and broke his (whatever that bone around the eye is called) ocipital maybe, and he lost his eye due to it. So I have a very strong belief on when and how our COMBAT TROOPS are used.
I agree ACR, if they are engaging with anything, I would be responding with lead. Politicians putting troops in a position where they are sitting ducks with ROE for an Ivory Tower talker is bull.
I would prefer to never see any US soldier deployed in any "peace-keeping" operation. Not unless the ROE say "see a person with gun, shoot that person on sight, lethal force can be used once the rock throwing starts". I saw a Somali sling a rock that hit a US soldier in the face ...
Slingers were used extensively by both sides during the Crusades: their effectiveness was vastly under-rated.
I still have my personal copy of the ROE from my tour in Bosnia (2000) that states up front and in all caps:
"NOTHING IN THESE RULES PROHIBITS YOU FROM EXERCISING YOUR INHERENT RIGHT TO DEFEND YOURSELF ..."
Even using minimum force in the protection of property may include deadly force concerning classified documents, weapons, etc.
Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.[center][/center]
[center]"The Angel of Okinawa"[/center]
Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II
Our M1a1's and Brads would have ate them for lunch. No contest.
Something I have noticed in WinSPMBT: M1A1 can see and shoot through smoke with little (or none) modifier to hit %. Or at least smoke from vehicle's own smoke dischargers. Is this accurate?
We were worried about the Brads, but discovered pretty quick that it was a really good vehicle. Will turn a BMP to swiss cheese and even do a number on a T55. Our TOW2 would have killed the T72.
Can you answer me this: what is the role of infantry aboard Bradley? And what is this infantry called?
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.
What do I call a commander that takes his detachment at a two-to-one or more advantage around an enemy detachment without making contact, utilizing stand-off weaponry to engage beyond visual range for the kill?
ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
Something I have noticed in WinSPMBT: M1A1 can see and shoot through smoke with little (or none) modifier to hit %. Or at least smoke from vehicle's own smoke dischargers. Is this accurate?
Have always been bothered by the game tactic in SPMBT of immediately releasing one's smoke dischargers to create a "wall of smoke" from which to shoot behind. It's tatamount in the game to "raising the shields" more or less as the OPFORCE (unless it too has Thermal) can't see and shoot at the force while the smoke screened thermal equipped tank of IVF proceeds to make a target practice out of the battle. Doing so on a commanding ridge often leads to nowhere for the OPFORCe to advance without exposing itself to one shot one kill.
I once asked a real life tanker if such a tactic was used as portrayed in the game and IIRC his answer was no.
ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
... Can you answer me this: what is the role of infantry aboard Bradley? And what is this infantry called?
In my day, they were called "dismounts"; they would perform the same role as any other mech infantry.
The Bradley has it's own crew.
Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.[center][/center]
[center]"The Angel of Okinawa"[/center]
Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II
Correct, us grunts are called dismounts. But in a ACR, we are Cav scouts so we do not have the same infantry man power that a normal infantry Bradley would carry. If we were lucky or unlucky depending on your point of view you would have 3-4 dismounts. Most of the time we had 2 dismounts per Bradley.
The thermals on an M1a1 are excellent. It is truly an all weather killer. Smoke discharge mounted on vehicles are there to cover a get away. Period. We, the US Army train to move and shoot at high speed. Pop smoke, throw in reverse and get out of dodge, not to pop and sit there shooting.
Based on this i'd tentatively conclude that the primary flaw in the SP game model is that the smoke from the dischargers lingers too long allowing the "sit and shoot" tactic vs. what it was intended for. (shooting and scooting to cover with the smoke covering the retreat)
Correct, us grunts are called dismounts. But in a ACR, we are Cav scouts so we do not have the same infantry man power that a normal infantry Bradley would carry. If we were lucky or unlucky depending on your point of view you would have 3-4 dismounts. Most of the time we had 2 dismounts per Bradley.
The thermals on an M1a1 are excellent. It is truly an all weather killer. Smoke discharge mounted on vehicles are there to cover a get away. Period. We, the US Army train to move and shoot at high speed. Pop smoke, throw in reverse and get out of dodge, not to pop and sit there shooting.
would the Thermal penetrate adequately the thick smoke right in front of the tank/IFV from the dischargers?....esp if in adverse weather conditions?
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