Dispatches from OKH: Q-Ball (Axis) v. Von Beeanie (SOV)

[Q-Ball]

I did several AARs in the the AE forum, so starting one here in WITE. This one is my first Axis PBEM vs. Von Beanie, who I think will prove to be a good opponent.

(PS: No Von Beanie please if you are reading this)

Many of you know I started a couple threads on opening German moves, so decided to try these on an actual human. Of course, won't help me much beyond that first turn....

I am hoping to use this AAR to solicit advice, and particularly to hone tactics. I expect to encounter Checkerboards, Red Carpets, and counterattacking hordes of Soviets. What I hope is you guys can help me through the thicket, and see if we can cause some damage against a good Soviet opponent. It could be I'm not that good (it did take me awhile to be OK at AE), but I want to put this in the books too in the interest of science.

So, dear readers, I hope for active participation and advice from the gallery.

So without further ado..... the opening turns.

First Up: AGC and AGN: This opening, I accomplished several things.

In the North, I took Riga, and otherwise surrounded a bunch of units. I used Naval Movement to move units to ports along the Baltic Coast.
(Quick Note: I was hoping to ship units to Riga, but for whatever reason, maybe Moon Island, I was not able to do so. That would have been sweet, though, with infantry almost to Pskov on turn 2!)
The other units of Pz Gp 4, unfortunately, were a little short of crossing the Daugvina. I diverted them slightly to close a pocket on 8 divisions in Lituania, hope that's worth it. I did cut the rail line along the Daugvina toward Riga, though.

In AGC area, I got to Minsk, and surrounded several other mobile units that should die pretty quick. I borrowed heavily from Pz Gp 3 in the South, as you will see; that doesn't slow me down Turn 1, since there is a limit to how far I can motor anyway, but I may feel that turn 3 when I could use the force on the Dnepr.

I could even it out by sending the frozen Corps of Pz Gp 1 north of the Pripet, in effect making an even "swap". On the other hand, the South has alot of resistance, and making progress in the Ukriane is high on my list of priorities.

Decision: Should I give Pz Gp 3 back it's troops by transferring that Corps from Pz Gp 1 (2 SS Div, 1 Pz Div), or make Pz Gp 1 the largest Panzer force? (Please comment).

Turn 2 Priorities: On turn 2, my priorities are pretty simple; get as far as possible!

In the North, I want to reach Pskov, and maybe even attack and get a bridghead accross that river. Infantry needs to march to catch-up to the Panzers.

In the Center, we are going to bypass Minsk (I assume he will leave the Division there), and move East fast. He may leave a unit or two in swamps to slow me down, but I should be able to sniff the Dnepr next turn. If Von Beanie is tardy, I can even get a bridgehead accross, but I think he'll try to delay me ahead of the river.

[Q-Ball]

AGS TURN I: In the South, pretty much replicated my opening in the forum. The larger Lvov pocket should be break-proof; if it isn't, I did a major miscalculation, but I looked at this extensively noting the Soviet mobile units that can move into "converted" hexes.

To accomplish this, I borrowed a weak Pz Corps, consisting of an SS Div, 1 Pz Div, and the pretty useless GD Regt (pretty useless now, super-division later!).

In my other PBEM, Carnage really bogged down in the South, I think in many ways because he didn't prioritize unit destruction early, and I always felt I had plenty of troops down there to slow him down. I am inclined to leave the extra units in Pz Gp 1, but would still like your thoughts, gentlemen.

There is also a smaller pocket at Kovel, which is small but contains some pretty good Soviet troops, including a couple good Rifle Divs, and a decent Mech Corps. They will all die, now. This pocket, BTW, can be closed with Infantry only, but you have to plan very carefully.

Looking ahead to Turn 2:
17th Army is going to be pretty busy reducing the Lvov pocket; the only downside to this pocket is that it's going take a couple turns to reduce it. I hope to make enough progress in turn 2, though, that I can send the Germans East, and leave the last clean-up to the Slovaks.

6th Army is going to sledgehammer toward Rovno, attempting to ROUT and otherwise crush units to it's front. If I can get a hole going, I plan to use the Panzers to surround and destroy more Soviet units. The priority in the South, right now, is UNIT DESTRUCTION.

11th Army and the Romanians will get off the mark and slowly march east, because that's about what they can do.

[CarnageINC]

Good luck Q-ball, may you face your defense!  Mwahahaha [;)]

[PeeDeeAitch]

You asked for comments!
 
The transfer of the Panzer corps to Center (XIV, I think) - This depends on your goals.  We have seen many people bog down in the south quite severely, two teams of tandem mobile corps could help out here.  4 in total (even given the weak GD reg), can cut swaths through the Soviets if you use them right - even chewing through good defenses with one and the 2nd meeting its counterpart in an encirclement.
 
I think that if you do this, you will lose momentum in the center, however.  If you are fine with not so much of a drive to Moscow, clearing the Dnepr and a slower advance then by all means it could be good - as we have seen from the maps, the Donets region is a crucial area of men and resources.
 
Also, if you decide to weaken the center, this might open up the 3rd Panzer Group to do the right hook on Leningrad, at least putting a scare in him and keeping the front fluid for longer. As always, it depends on the reaction of the Soviets.  The goal with a lighter Center is to keep the initiative, I think.

[CapAndGown]

Do the swap. PzG 2 needs the units to deal with the red carpet. Once the Pskov area is secured, I would also recommend moving PzG 4 to AGC and replace it with 2nd Army and lots of inf replacements. If you are going for Leningrad, inf is the way to go. (You could also divert cav divisions north since they work well in that terrain.)

[notenome]

Problem is a strong center can destabilize both the south (as historically happened) and the north (what Guderian advocated, sending the panzers north to isolate Leningrad). But I've yet to see the center get prioritized.

[raizer]

you all should know better by now;

Lenningrad!:

[Klydon]

I think what your overall objective is for 1941 depends on where the frozen units of AGS go. The 5 frozen are actually fairly underwhelming except for 14 Panzer and Wiking. What they are good at helping do is encirclements, but the motorized divisions are going to be subject to Russian counter attacks sooner than later.

There is no question AGS can use the extra mobile formations because of so many Russian units starting there. In previous games, they seem to stall out fairly quickly and it is a major ordeal to crack the Dnepr.

I have not had a chance to work with it yet, but there is something to be said about moving the 5 frozen units to AGC to keep the drive going in the center and then sending them south to outflank the Dnepr that way. Just be aware that it will likely take them a turn to catch up since they start so far from the border to start with and then have to make the transit through some terrain to catch up to your spearheads.

Not to derail the thread too much, but certainly the frozen units of AGS have been playing havoc with the Axis first turn since most of us are used to having them when playing other Eastern Front games. Not knocking the research at all as the team has been so thorough in pretty much everything, but certainly this has thrown people for a loop and I think the Germans are still in the process of figuring out the right first turn mix and also making a decision on the 5 units.

This promises to be an interesting AAR, so I will be staying tuned, especially since it incorporates a lot of the two threads that were going in the War Room to open the game with.

[Q-Ball]

TURN 2: AGN

Von Beanie intends to fight, not run. That's the best way to play Soviets, so though I would like to make good progress, in the end I want a good opponent.

Because we took Riga last turn and crossed the Daugvina, the 4th Pz Gp units all had MPs in the 40s. We used them to race accross Latvia, and managed to attack outside Pskov. We would have cross the river except that Von Beanie had already pulled together enough units to cover it. We did force a large Mot Div to retreat and otherwise reached the Riverbank. It might take Infantry to break the line, which we won't get until Turn 4.

[Q-Ball]

TURN 2, AGC:

Here is where Von Beanie's forward defense slowed me down a bit; he defended short of the Dnepr, and forced me to either attack accross a River with Panzers, or go through swamps. Rather than wait for the infantry, we attacked. Our patrols made it to the Dnepr, and even got a ZOC accross the River. I am pleased with that Turn 2. Von Beanie wisely garrisoned Mogilev, or I would have taken it.

NOTE: I have been diverting some mobile units slightly to displace HQs and Airbases. Not for HQ displacement alone, but because we have gotten some fuel that way. One HQ netted 50 tons; every drop helps!

Looking Ahead: My Panzers are very fatigued, but no rest for the weary. We need to try to cross the Dnepr next turn, but failing that, at least knock him back a hex and prevent units from digging in. I expect alot more resistance Turn 3! This is probably the last turn we can use Hasty Attacks to bulldoze our way through.

[Q-Ball]

AGS Turn 2:

The LVOV pocket is going to take some time to reduce; there are alot of units ,and alot of space in there!

We formed a new, small pocket around Proskurov, while the Infantry catches-up. The priority down here is unit destruction. In the process, we also attacked a large Tank Div on deliberate attack; we destroyed over 250 tanks in that battle.

I committed that extra Panzer Corps to the SOUTH, though I detached SS WIKING to give Pz Gp 3 some SS support.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: raizer

you all should know better by now;

Lenningrad!:

Sorry Q-ball but I must post mine...[:D]

[Q-Ball]

Those are funny! All it takes is a couple-dozen Imperial Star Destroyers to let you know you may have made a mistake.....

Of course, the Imperial Forces looked alot like the Wehrmacht, from the helmet-shapes, to the close-cut grey-green uniforms with jack boots sported by the Imperial Fleet Officers, and the Black uniforms of the security troops. The Wehrmacht even had a general named Hoth. Go figure.....

[Q-Ball]

Turn 3: AGN and AGC:

In the NORTH, not much to map-out. Von Beanie did a good job stopping me, first displacing an unprotected Panzer HQ (my bad), then placing large forces around Pskov. Recon shows nothing on the Narva at all. Pretty good idea. Hopefully in Turn 4 we can make some progress up there.

In the CENTER, we really felt the effects of fuel this turn, as we ran out of gas right at the Dnepr. I was 1 MP short of getting a Panzer unit across, which would have been a big break. Instead, we clean-up some units in our rear, and bring the Infantry up for hopefully a crack at it on Turn 4.

[Q-Ball]

Turn 3, AGS:

Here is where the extra armor is helping in AGS. I am very pleased with the progress here. We have pocketed alot of units, and from Recon, it looks to me like he is pulling back on the Dnepr.

We liquidated the Proskurov pocket, and worked more on the Lvov pocket, which is down to 5 units. We formed a new pocket around Vinnitsa. Even the Romanians have surrounded a couple units!

[2ndACR]

You need to get a unit in Tarnopol to garrison, don't give him a chance for partisans.

You need 3-6 strong Infantry Div with 16mp to force the Dnepr. Figure turn 5 for them to rest and you to get fuel to Panzers. They will need full movement to make it when you force a single hole.

[Q-Ball]

Turn 4: AGN and AGC:

AGN: No map, as we are still stuck in heavy combat around Pskov. It broke this turn, as we routed an infantry Division to the south, and managed to completely surround Pskov, with 3 Divs inside. Infantry support makes all the difference! Next turn, infantry will force those 3 units to surrender, and the Panzers will close the gap on Leningrad.

AGC: We are across the Dnepr in force. Von Beanie had fought me short of the river, and as a result we routed some units. Maybe that was the difference, as the coverage along the River was pretty thin.

Next turn, we are pretty set to move. All units in my rear are cleaned-up, with the surrender of the last units around Minsk (3 Divisions)

By the end of turn 4, Soviet losses are 1.05 mil men, with nearly 800K POWs. We have lost 80K, and about 400 tanks.

[Q-Ball]

Turn 4, AGS:

Not alot of time, so here is a picture, which they say is worth 1000 words

[2ndACR]

Big mistake fighting you west of the river. Good move shooting across.

[Q-Ball]

Turn 5 Update:

I forgot to make screenshots before sending back the turn, but Von Beanie is changing strategy.

Previously, he fought me forward. My opening turn went very well, and my Panzers raced forward, running into pretty good defenses along the Dnepr and around Pskov. Pskov in particular gave me trouble.

Once these points fell, Von Beanie seems to be falling back. In the South, he is forming a line along the Dnepr; in the Center, a line right at Smolensk, using a river to the South of Smolensk, and in the north he seems to be pulling into the swamps in front of Leningrad.

In Army Group North, we surrounded Pskov on Turn 4, and liquidated it on Turn 5, capturing 35,000 troops in the city. Our Panzers made limited progress otherwise, as we are halting for an HQ buildup....

In the AGC Sector, not much combat to report. We moved up to Smolensk and East, filling 3-4 hexes that the Reds withdrew through, and also completed the encirclement of 4 divisions which were stuck on the Dnepr and couldn't get out in time.

In AGS, the Reds ran. My Panzers drove East, hitting nothing but empty space until the gates of Kirovgrad. I don't see much other than a screen, though, before the Dnepr bend. We'll push east as long as we hit air.

I am also moving up infantry to assault accross the Dnepr, but it will probably be turn 7 before I can make a move.