Return to Smolensk and Beyond, IdahoNY vs Scar

[IdahoNYer]

On the south side of the salient, 2nd Pz Grp is having difficulties. The Soviets counterattacked LAH in their turn, and instead of retreating back to toward German lines, it "advanced" to its present location - cut off by Soviet troops. Despite HQ buildup, 2nd Pz Grp barely manages to re-establish a line of supply corridor to LAH - Soviet fortifications on the shoulder of the German attack were just too strong and the Germans lack sufficient infantry. Still, the attack must be pressed, and perhaps we are beyond the fortified line and some progress can be made.

I just hope Guderian doesn't get relieved for this!

[IdahoNYer]

6th Army receives XXXXVI Pzkps from 2nd Army and begins to pressure Soviet defenses southwest of Kursk. XXXVI Pzkps makes modest gains, but looks as though they have penetrated past the defense line the Soviets were attempting to establish. Without the PzKps, 2nd Army is too weak to advance, and can just maintain coverage on the flanks. With infantry still advancing to contact, 6th Army is in good position to either advance on Kursk, or wheel SE to create an envelopement with 1st Pz Army. The question is whether Scar will attempt to hold ground or fall back further east of course.

[IdahoNYer]

The big news in AGS area of operations is the success of 1st Pz Grp. As expected, the Soviets closed behind III Pzkps lead elements and isolated them, but were not able to extract the majority of troops to the west. The renewed German attack, with infantry and III Pzkps elements opening up a new corridor, allowing XXXXVIII Pzkps to exploit through, creating the sizable Poltava Pocket - which looks to be fairly secure. This also may open the door to Kharkov and even further into the Donets basin. Like 3rd Pz Grps success near Moscow, timing however is running short for such deep advances. Still, there does not appear to be sizable Soviet reserves at hand, and if I'm Scar, Moscow has to be the priority for reinforcements.

[IdahoNYer]

Very surprisingly, Scar pulls off the lower Dniepr. I figured another 2 weeks or so of attempting to get a solid foothold on the east bank through the swamps. Now, instead of slugging through the swamps against fortified positions, we have some open ground and perhaps a lack of fortifications. 11th and 4th Rum Armies will push east, toward the Donets Basin. 4th Rum Army will push south toward the Crimea and test the defenses at the northern entrace to the Crimea. If I can enter the Crimea proper, great, but my priority is the Donets Basin. Supply however, will be difficult as I push east as the two AGS rail repair units are moving north of the Dniepr to support 6th Army and 1st Pz Grp.

[IdahoNYer]

With the apparent success of Operation Shark, I'm feeling a bit better of suviving the upcoming blizzard. The vast majority of the 43 divisions destoyed the last two turns were divisions. This number should double over the next two weeks with the reduction of the Leningrad and Poltava Pockets.

[IdahoNYer]

Last screen shot for the turn is the casualty report. Over 2 million mark reached for Soviet losses, while Germany is rapidly approaching the 300,000 mark. Very acceptable from my perspective right now - how's it looking to those more experienced folks out there?

[randallw]

Letting the Finns march beyond the No Attack line could be a major problem for your opponent.

[veji1]

Wow , impressive, You have got your opponent on the ropes. You still have lots of time, this is only september ! counting the mud turns, you really have a good chance of getting Moscow. If I were you I would already start calculating what force you can spare from the Leningrad pocket reduction that could relieve the panzers doing the link up with the Finns, so that you can start moving back the Panzer for a Typhoon type operation in late october. It is late, but with an opponent on the ropes and the urban bonuses you would get if you got Moscow, you could hold during Blizzard.. Worth a try.

[IdahoNYer]

I'm tempted Veji 1 - but not sure I'll have enough time. I'm bringing XL PzKps to 3rd Pz Grp area now - its on the rails. I hope to disengage 4th Pz Grp as soon as practical, but that really depends on whether the Soviets attempt to relieve Leningrad or not. So - perhaps, I can bring 3-4 PzKps to make a lunge at Moscow from the northwest.

However, I don't want to distract from taking down Leningrad - that is my number one priority.

[kfmiller41]

From this Russian players prospective your doing great, but I would caution that depending on how many troops you actually pocketed in Leningrad (and how many more you do in other areas) you may not have caused enough casualties to risk attempting to get to moscow and not getting there, because if you don't and he has upwards of 6 mil+ troops, you will get knocked back a long way if not properly dug in. Trust me I have done it to one opponent who didn't and even the one who started digging in in October got pushed back 100 miles. You may even take Moscow but be unable to hold it due to being surrounded. It may be worth a try though, your the first PBEM game I have seen where Leningrad got cut off so early in the campaign[&o]. Good luck whatever you decide.

[IdahoNYer]

Thanks Miller41, alot of luck involved in getting this far. Pretty sure my strongest force attacked his weakest point in the line - plus not garrisoning the no attack line helped a bit.

I'm going to try and reinforce the 3rd Pz Grp area with XL PzKps and bring down 4th Pz Grp as soon as I can, but time is against me - frankly, I'm more concerned about reducing the Vyazma Salient than taking Moscow right now - Although I figured Scar would be throwing the kitchen sink in by now to stop progress towards Moscow and he hasn't. The Salient is a major concern as I've stripped 4th Army as much as I dare - a Girl Scout troop with sharp sticks could penetrate the line!!

[veji1]

Miller is probably right, your priority now should be troop destruction and preparation of your winter defense line, rather than territory or Moscow.

[karonagames]

Miller is probably right, your priority now should be troop destruction and preparation of your winter defense line, rather than territory or Moscow.

The first and only priority in 1941, IMHO, is manpower. Pockets and Manpower Centres.

If you have any chance of taking out Moscow's manpower you should take it. Even if you only hold it for a couple of turns, you will put a massive dent in the available manpower to attack you during the blizzard.

In this situation I would push as far east as I could, forget about digging in. This is not the time to give the initiative back to the soviets. Even if you were retreated 1hex per turn during the blizzard, you could still have an excellent start line for 1942.

Panzers East!!!!

[IdahoNYer]

Decisions ! Decisions!

[IdahoNYer]

Turn 14, 18 Sep 41.

AGN's 18th and 16th Armies continue to reduce the Leningrad Pocket - netting another 16 Divisions surrendered. 16th Army's XXXXI PzKps provides the reserve against an attempted Soviet breakout, which seems less likely with each passng day. Finns continue to slowly move south to take over the line, releasing elements of 4th Pz Grp which I am trying to re-orient against the Moscow area.

18th Army will focus its effort against Leningrad proper next week, while 16th Army mops up remnants and then joins the Finns in relieving 4th Pz Grp.

[IdahoNYer]

3rd Pz Grp continues to make reasonable progress in front of Moscow. I am still surprised by the lack of determined resistance in this area. Many Soviet divisions are mere shells and rout easily - others fight and hold to the last, but they are the minority. Both PzKps are fairly exhausted at this point, although panzer strength remains fairly good. XL PzKps is offloaded from the rail head and brought up to reinforce, although a Soviet attack against the northern regiment of 4th Army - although held - could prove trouble some as I have no reserves in 4th Army. Then again, if the Soviets don't withdraw from the Vyazma Salient soon - and I am able to bring some of 4th Pz Grp south, another major encirclement is in the offing.

3rd Pz Grp, reinforced with XL PzKps, will continue it's thrust south to link up with 2nd Pz Grp. As elements of 4th Pz Grp become available, it will attack toward Moscow, to the east of 3rd Pz Grp with the intent to seize the city if possible - priority remains removing the Vyazma Salient.

[IdahoNYer]

2nd Pz Grp continues to bludgeon its way east through very determined resistance, which includes successful massed infantry attacks aganst lead German elements. Despite the HQ Supply Buildup, the Pz Grp makes little progress, although by re-orienting east instead of north, it might have penetrated through the heaviest fortifications.

Will continue to attack in an attempt to link up with 3rd Pz Grp, so it will have to re-orient north at some point. Infantry is in short supply, and 4th Army's lack of reserves is a concern.

[IdahoNYer]

6th Army's XXXXVI PzKps creates a breach in the Soviet lines north of Sumy - attack shifted north due to the fortifications from Sumy south. 6th Army will continue to attack east - threaten Kursk, but shift the attack SE towards Belgorod and Kharkov to potentially create another Soviet Pocket with 1st Pz Grp.

Although it's not my primary goal - if 2nd Pz Grp can not make progress north, I am considering turning 6th Army north towards Orel and link up with 2nd Pz Grp heading south. Priority is Kursk-Belgorod-Kharkov, but we'll see.

[IdahoNYer]

AGS's attack gains momentum. The Poltava Pocket is pretty much reduced by 17th Army, yielding 20 divisions surrendered after a failed breakout attempt. Without these divisions in the line, the Soviet front disintegrates. 1st Pz Grp splits its PzKps, III PzKps threatening Kharkov and a potential link-up with 6th Army while XXXXVIII Pzkps exploits SE toward Stalino and the Sea of Azov. Splitting 1st Pz Grp and exploiting XXXXVIII Pzkps that far into the Soviet rear area is not without risks,as the Soviet force left along the Dniepr to the south will likely cut this spearhead off - but with 17th Army coming up fast, I'm willing to take the risk at a possible grab at Stalino. 11th Army moves quickly from their Dniepr crossing and apparently has penetrated the initial Soviet defense line established, and cut off the Crimea. Rum 4th Army will test the Crimean defenses.

Overall, did not expect this kind of success in the far south - now I have a solid opportunity to seize Kharkov and the Donets Basin.

[IdahoNYer]

Forces available at the end of Turn 14. Significant increase in Soviet losses since the start of Operation Shark. Might just have a chance to survive the Blizzard - Axis forces now outnumber the Soviets in all categories except aircraft!