Here come the Rebels! (Canoe v. Q-Ball)

[Canoerebel]

Hey, CB, how much snow did you get?

As for the Indian naval vessel hitting a merchant ship, two questions:

1. Why is the Indian newscaster speaking English?

2. Why are there passengers milling around on a naval vessel?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, CB, how much snow did you get?

As for the Indian naval vessel hitting a merchant ship, two questions:

1. Why is the Indian newscaster speaking English?

2. Why are there passengers milling around on a naval vessel?

We were well North of the latest SNOWNAMI. We've received maybe 4" in the last week. Plenty cold though.

1. Because they speak English in India.

2. Apparently, as the report indicates, the Indian Navy has a policy of taking family out for a cruise in Bombay harbor once annually. A particularly inauspicious time to collide with an oil tanker, if you ask my opinion.

[Canoerebel]

Well, they speak English in Germany, too, but I would expect German newscasts to be in German.

Is English prevalant in India? For instance are there so many languages spoken in India that English is a useful "universal trade language"?

Not that you're necessarily an expert on India, but I'm just curious.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Well, they speak English in Germany, too, but I would expect German newscasts to be in German.

Is English prevalant in India? For instance are there so many languages spoken in India that English is a useful "universal trade language"?

Not that you're necessarily an expert on India, but I'm just curious.

Butting in, but I took an Indian history course back in the day. Very interesting place.

As I recall, there are eight official languages in India, out of hundreds (thousands?) of dialects of the majors. English is spoken by most of the population outside of strictly rural areas at least as a strong second language.

Edit: Apparently it's 18 official langiages in their constitution. Either they changed since 1978, or my memory is going.

Edit edit: Apparently it's a real nest of language problems there. Hindi is the main "official" language, but there's no "national" language. States can set their own business language standards. The constitution mentions the 18. English was supposed to have been phased out 15 years after the constitution went into effect, but wasn't. The Indian Supreme Court conducts business in English, and Parliament hasn't acted to change this.

Canada has trouble with two, so India's situation, growing as it did out of a patchwork of competing states, principalities, conquered regions under the Mogul Empire, European trade colonies, European imperial empire, etc. is a real problem. Nothing cements a nation together like shared language.

[Canoerebel]

Wow! That's interesting, and I had no idea. (I did know that Hindi was a/the major language, but that was about the extent of my knowledge.)

So, India is having the same success in supplanting English that we Americans did in implmenting the metric system....(ah, I still remember my 7th grade math teacher scaring the class to death with that announcement).

P.S. Somebody correctly said that this AAR is turning into the Thread Light. Arg, I apologize for the stream of consciousness stuff. I'll try to get back on track, gents.

[anarchyintheuk]

Stream of consciousness and an aar at the same time . . . best of both worlds imo.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Stream of consciousness and an aar at the same time . . . best of both worlds imo.

Yeah, forum memory space costs Matrix about, what, a fraction of a cent per meg? [:)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Wow! That's interesting, and I had no idea. (I did know that Hindi was a/the major language, but that was about the extent of my knowledge.)

So, India is having the same success in supplanting English that we Americans did in implmenting the metric system....(ah, I still remember my 7th grade math teacher scaring the class to death with that announcement).

P.S. Somebody correctly said that this AAR is turning into the Thread Light. Arg, I apologize for the stream of consciousness stuff. I'll try to get back on track, gents.

I would say that English is the language used by default in government, medicine and much of higher education in India. Many Indians that I've met speak Hindi (or their particular dialect) pretty fluently too. Urdu would be another common regional language for many of the mostly muslim northern provinces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English

Perhaps this is akin to Togalog in the Philippines. Many Philippinos (particularly those with post-secondary education) speak English regularly. However, in their homes or their neighborhoods, will most commonly converse in Togalog.

As nice as NW GA is, Canoerebel, you really ought to get out more often. See the world, o' defender of India! [&o]

[Canoerebel]

I often jokingly tell people that I haven't "left the Confederacy in xx years." While there is a hint of truth underlying the jest, I do make it out of the CSA on occasion.

Back in 2004, my family and I went on a long camping trip to New York and New England. This was the first foray for any of us to that neck of the woods. Now, I had been told all my life that Yankees were usually pretty curt or gruff, and not infrequently churlish or rude. So I went north expecting to find the populace quite different from the rural South.

To the surprise and great pleasure of me, my wife, and my children, we enjoyed every minute of that trip, including our foray into New York City. But during our long stay in New England, we found the people pleasant and friendly and just like the folks at home. We were welcomed and knew that if had life called us to live up that way, we would have done so gladly.

This past summer we did a three-week camping trip out west. We met many nice people during that journey, but I must say that, on average, we found the residents of the Rocky Mountain States more "different" from back home than New Englanders. This surprised me.

I love traveling, but my career, family, and community responsibilities have kept me confined to the good ol' USA. My wife, however, has ventured to German, Romania, and Israel over the past four years. She makes a good ambassador for the family.

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: witpqs

CR,

You are right to value the taking of risks. I mean actual risks, not just actions that you think your opponent will perceive as risky. The difference is, if you are trying to be perceived as taking risks but in reality are playing timid with some faux risks out there, your opponent will catch on.

When your opponent knows that you are willing to risk, and you are willing to risk, that greatly enlarges the scope of your actions that he must consider.

Huh? I think only Vincini could understand that

I thought it made perfect sense [;)]

[JohnDillworth]

Huh? I think only Vincini could understand that

Well he is involved in a land war in Asia, no?

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Well, darn it, even somebody as eloquent, resolved, svelte, and humble as I am has been unable to sway the onlookers. Shoot, I hate it when my omnisicence proves flawed.

[:)]

CR, I guess you're drawing on some past Midway experience here? For what it's worth, my experience as an Allied player concerning Midway is mostly as the other guys commenting - so what? If the Jap player takes it, it's inifinitely easier for you to retake than for the Jap player to support/supply it.

In other words, given what you've stated defends that island, the proximity to PH, and the the current date in the campaign, I wouldn't be overly worried.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Marcus: Vettim, you're exactly right about Marcus Island, but I'm considering taking it with the full expectation that I won't hold it. Why? Four reasons: (1) I'll garrison the island with a RCT and a Marine CD, which means it will exact a toll on the Japanese in re-taking it; (2) If I take Wake and Marcus, Brad's full attention is going to be that way for awhile; I think this will help the Allies move on Tarawa (forces already prepped at Pearl); (3) according to SigInt, Brad has had just 2k troops at Iwo since the start of the war - attack Marcus and I'll have Brad beefing up security there, an any troops siphoned off the real targets is a bonus; and (4) I want these moves to lend the appearance (along with my build up in the Aleutians) that the Allies are looking this way - CenPac and NoPac. This will be critical come early '43 when the Allies commit a large feint toward the Kuriles while actually moving on Sumatra. Despite all those "worthwhile" goals, I'm still not positive I'll go through with the Marcus invasion

Something many dont factor in is you are not doing these in isolation, I can imagine the chagrin at seeing landings at Wake & Marcus, movement in the Noumea & Aleutians areas plus the continued advance in India.

Where does QBall react, (neither Wake or Marcus are key points, but bleeding annoying losses as they cramp the navsearch ability of the empire) Noumea is also acceptable as a loss though a far better potential base for the Allies. Action in the Addu/Kiska area might really start bells ringing given your History.

If you also plan to hit the Tarawa/Makin area you just might get QBall running from pillar to post and make a mistake.

This is going to make good reading soon.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I would say that English is the language used by default in government, medicine and much of higher education in India.

It's no accident that India got our call center business.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, I understood it! [:)]

I think witpqs is right - there is merit in attacking for the sake of attacking as long as it's part of a well-thought-out plan and not just flying off the handle. Two things I can think of:

1) As witpqs is points out, it can put the notion into the opponent's head that you're willing to attack.
2) Sometimes, an attack has totally unforeseen consquences: the opponent makes a mistake, or overreacts, or does something rash. Heck that's what happened with the Doolittle Raid - a huge risk of a rare and valuable Allied asset to do something that really couldn't be done and wouldn't accomplish much even if it was done...only that it was done and led directly to the Battle of Midway.

Well, I've just stated the obvious. Sorry guys, I know you know all this stuff. But sometimes we forget to factor in item two merely because we CAN'T predict something of the sort happening. But I saw it happen in my games with Miller and John III, where wacky Allied attacks ended up prompting my opponents to do something wacky that really cost them.

Sometimes, bringing pressure to bear is worthwhile in and of itself.

"Wacky?" Wacky! I still hold that is was more fundamentally insane then wacky. Attempting to land on the Northern Home Isles in 1943. CRAZY!

Do you remember the stress and trauma of those game weeks Dan? I sank 100s of your ships, drove you out of Hokkaido, and YOU STILL KEPT COMING. I'm starting to get the cold shakes again...

[Canoerebel]

It was a nutty, captivating, amazing sequence, wasn't it?! Here's kind of how I remember the battle, John:

1. Allies get pretty decent strategic surprise. You catch wind of the invasion fleet approaching northern Japan, and you're wondering where they are heading (and I am too, somewhat!).

2. You had just finished withdrawing most of your Australian Expeditionary Army (don't make me relive that debacle!) from Oz to places much closer to Japan.

3. My invasion force came ashore on Hokkaido in relatively decent shape, but very quickly the wrath of Japan descended, sinking scores (hundreds?) of transports.

4. I managed to take Sopporro and another base or two or three, but you counterinvaded right behind me and chased my beleauged force right up the coast. While I was trying to figure out how to save my Hokkaido army, I landed a force on lightly garrisoned Sikhalin Island and managed to take both bases (and this proved the key moment in the battle). Then I surprised myself in evacuating a decent part of my Hokkaido army to Sikhalin Island. Winter had descended, so you had no chance to counterinvade for months.

5. Meanwhile, the KB and Kaigun arrived and we engaged in a bitter battle all around the Kuriles. I took a shellacking. I had already issued orders during one critical turn for the remnants of my fleet to withdraw, effectively giving up on the invasion, when I saw the possiblity to draw to an inside straight. I sent a bunch of PBY Liberators to the Allied airfields or two on Hokkaido and Sikhalin. I didn't have any base forces, but thought there was a shot they might sortie and find your capital ships unprotected. It worked, and how. Suddenly a bunch of IJN carriers were damaged. Then several more ran into Allied combat TFs when I somehow guessed exactly where one of your carrier TFs would end a turn.

6. As a result of all this, the KB was weakened considerably. Meantime, my carriers were totally out of aircraft...but I managed to land enough supply at Shikuka to rearm them. So suddenly, instead of having a totally depleted Allied carrier force facing an overwhelming and untouched KB, I had a totally potent carrier force facing a very dimished KB. And all that happened over the span of about two turns.

7. By the time spring arrive, the Allies had consolidated their hold on Sikhalin Island and the campaign had ended. My supply line was intact as were my carriers. I was going to be okay.

Man, what a battle!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Do you remember the stress and trauma of those game weeks Dan? I sank 100s of your ships, drove you out of Hokkaido, and YOU STILL KEPT COMING. I'm starting to get the cold shakes again...

OK you two, get a room!! [:)]

(Or, start another game together. You're well matched.)

[Canoerebel]

I'm trying to be patient as I await the next turn from Q-Ball. He's over in the WitE room busily engaged in his new PBEM, but he didn't send the usual turn in our game last night. I'm anxious to get on with the invasions, but I take it that his lack of interest might indicate that he isn't aware that big things are going on at the moment.

Darn that WitE!

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It was a nutty, captivating, amazing sequence, wasn't it?! Here's kind of how I remember the battle, John:

1. Allies get pretty decent strategic surprise. You catch wind of the invasion fleet approaching northern Japan, and you're wondering where they are heading (and I am too, somewhat!).

2. You had just finished withdrawing most of your Australian Expeditionary Army (don't make me relive that debacle!) from Oz to places much closer to Japan.

3. My invasion force came ashore on Hokkaido in relatively decent shape, but very quickly the wrath of Japan descended, sinking scores (hundreds?) of transports.

4. I managed to take Sopporro and another base or two or three, but you counterinvaded right behind me and chased my beleauged force right up the coast. While I was trying to figure out how to save my Hokkaido army, I landed a force on lightly garrisoned Sikhalin Island and managed to take both bases (and this proved the key moment in the battle). Then I surprised myself in evacuating a decent part of my Hokkaido army to Sikhalin Island. Winter had descended, so you had no chance to counterinvade for months.

5. Meanwhile, the KB and Kaigun arrived and we engaged in a bitter battle all around the Kuriles. I took a shellacking. I had already issued orders during one critical turn for the remnants of my fleet to withdraw, effectively giving up on the invasion, when I saw the possiblity to draw to an inside straight. I sent a bunch of PBY Liberators to the Allied airfields or two on Hokkaido and Sikhalin. I didn't have any base forces, but thought there was a shot they might sortie and find your capital ships unprotected. It worked, and how. Suddenly a bunch of IJN carriers were damaged. Then several more ran into Allied combat TFs when I somehow guessed exactly where one of your carrier TFs would end a turn.

6. As a result of all this, the KB was weakened considerably. Meantime, my carriers were totally out of aircraft...but I managed to land enough supply at Shikuka to rearm them. So suddenly, instead of having a totally depleted Allied carrier force facing an overwhelming and untouched KB, I had a totally potent carrier force facing a very dimished KB. And all that happened over the span of about two turns.

7. By the time spring arrive, the Allies had consolidated their hold on Sikhalin Island and the campaign had ended. My supply line was intact as were my carriers. I was going to be okay.

Man, what a battle!

Well planned and all went according to the script. [:D]

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It was a nutty, captivating, amazing sequence, wasn't it?! Here's kind of how I remember the battle, John:

1. Allies get pretty decent strategic surprise. You catch wind of the invasion fleet approaching northern Japan, and you're wondering where they are heading (and I am too, somewhat!).

2. You had just finished withdrawing most of your Australian Expeditionary Army (don't make me relive that debacle!) from Oz to places much closer to Japan.

3. My invasion force came ashore on Hokkaido in relatively decent shape, but very quickly the wrath of Japan descended, sinking scores (hundreds?) of transports.

4. I managed to take Sopporro and another base or two or three, but you counterinvaded right behind me and chased my beleauged force right up the coast. While I was trying to figure out how to save my Hokkaido army, I landed a force on lightly garrisoned Sikhalin Island and managed to take both bases (and this proved the key moment in the battle). Then I surprised myself in evacuating a decent part of my Hokkaido army to Sikhalin Island. Winter had descended, so you had no chance to counterinvade for months.

5. Meanwhile, the KB and Kaigun arrived and we engaged in a bitter battle all around the Kuriles. I took a shellacking. I had already issued orders during one critical turn for the remnants of my fleet to withdraw, effectively giving up on the invasion, when I saw the possiblity to draw to an inside straight. I sent a bunch of PBY Liberators to the Allied airfields or two on Hokkaido and Sikhalin. I didn't have any base forces, but thought there was a shot they might sortie and find your capital ships unprotected. It worked, and how. Suddenly a bunch of IJN carriers were damaged. Then several more ran into Allied combat TFs when I somehow guessed exactly where one of your carrier TFs would end a turn.

6. As a result of all this, the KB was weakened considerably. Meantime, my carriers were totally out of aircraft...but I managed to land enough supply at Shikuka to rearm them. So suddenly, instead of having a totally depleted Allied carrier force facing an overwhelming and untouched KB, I had a totally potent carrier force facing a very dimished KB. And all that happened over the span of about two turns.

7. By the time spring arrive, the Allies had consolidated their hold on Sikhalin Island and the campaign had ended. My supply line was intact as were my carriers. I was going to be okay.

Man, what a battle!

Well planned and all went according to the script. [:D]

What's truly amazing is that after that the man had the audacity to post in my AAR a few months later that I was too aggressive going for Tarawa in the summer of 1943.

Forlorn Hopes will likely be the only game where we saw an Allied invasion of Japan in 1943 and a Japanese Invasion of India in 1945 (or was it late 1944?)